A New England Regional State of Mind

[DAP]

Another series of posts in another thread has born this thread from me.

I get the impression, perhaps in error, that some tractor enthusiasts living outside the area that I live in (Southern Tier of NY and/or NE) have very different experiences in the retail world of tractors and/or machinery.

Let me share with you (once again and for the sake of the newer peeps) what my perceptions of the realities are in this area.

I have found that in order for me to get a price on a machine that competes with other areas, I would have to travel at a minimum of 3 hours from my property. 3 hours puts me into any one of 4 different states.

I have a 2 Kubota, 1 New Holland, 1 John Deere and 1 Agco dealer all within 20 minutes of my house. NOT ONE of them will sell me a tractor (cash or otherwise) FOR ANYTHING BUT LIST PRICE. (1 of the dealers moved 3% off of list).

Now here is what I believe is the reason.

First. The area where I live has become so sprawled, and lost so much ag properties and has become so highly taxed that A: many dealers cease to exist, B: the ones that do have lost their ag based clientel C: 99% of that latter clientel has been replaced by almost entirely 'contractor' clients who pass any cost they can on to the consumer naturally.

These dealers HAVE CLEARLY made the choice to exclude the rather small handful of small/parttime/hobbyist/enthusiast farm/residence etc. from their business model.

In most cases these businesses will openly admit to this model and suggest I buy outta state - ("don't expect much help from us for warranty work - we're a busy shop here').

DON"T TURN THIS INTO A WARRANTY WORK THREAD PLEASE. We just had one of those.

Now .. Bob Skurka and I were trading some posts back in another thread.

MANY people purport that the relationship you "BUY" from your dealer is as or more important than the machine. This certainly is a sensible notion.

Bob quite sensibly worked his local fellows over and got himself a deal he was satisified with.

I finally asked him if he would be willing to pay NEAR or AT LIST PRICE for a big 3 machine versus saving a coupla of thousdand buying a 2nd Tier machine (i.e. Kioti, Mahindra, etc.) or a big 3 machine SHIPPED from another region (aka far away - creating the interesting local warranty work issue on a unit not sold locally). I was trying to present him with this situation. Bob ... I don't think your wiffle bat would fair so well here. If I'm wrong, then I've got a thing or 2 to learn about wiffle bats that I thought I already knew.

Finally I believe his answer was (and Bob correct me if I'm wrong) that he would in fact move to Tier 2 but NOT out of state. This also makes the assumption that a local Tier 2 dealer is present.

In my case, they're not.

Now I'm not picking on Bob. He also had the notion that he could interject a Tier 2 line into this regional business model and make it work. I often thought about this too. I just can't find a good answer for 'who would be my target market though'. Certainly, I'm not a marketing specialist either however.

Bottom line -- the playing field is not necessarily equal in the retail world for tractors. This has been stated several times. But for some of us, THERE IS NO LOCAL SOLUTION. Forgive my RANT, but it is a bad tasting fruit, especially when I hear over and over and over about your dealer realtionship being ....

At THE VERY VERY BEST ... I will be looking at a minimum 3 hour drive to purchase a unit in my home state or one of the neighboring states. To get the MOST competitive price, I will have to go internet (prolly NC or some other 800 USD ship from state) OR have cowboydoc et. al laughing at what a sucker I am. G-d forbid.

That's what its like in large parts of this region, based on my experience. Others may differ. I've seen many who will agree.

 

[Boondox]

Doug -- I bought from away (Carver) and still managed to retain the loyal support of my local dealer. I was very upfront with my local fellow, stating that I could buy a tractor from him with no money left over for implements. Or I could buy the tractor from away and purchase my implements locally. He was happy with that arrangement, and subsequently so graceful about my service needs I've bought a logging winch, finish mower, and a backhoe from him.

So I'd offer that paradigm as a third alternative...

Pete

 

[BillG_in_TX]

<font color="blue"> This also makes the assumption that a local Tier 2 dealer is present ... In my case, they're not. </font>

DAP,

I plugged the Middletown NY zip code into the dealer locator searches and found at least a dozen Kioti, Century and Mahindra dealers within 70 miles. Now I realize things are different in New England (as you clearly argue), but in Texas those would all be considered "local". /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[KiotiJohn]

I don't think I would want to pay full list for a tractor. I'd go out of state, get a good deal, and if I had to have work done, see to it that the MFG representative found out if I wasn't treated right by the locals. John

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Doug, I think you fairly accurately portrayed my position. I am in the middle of the midwest, and while I am on the very far edge of the Chicago suburban sprawl, I am surrounded by real farms and live in between 2 communites that are agriculturally based towns. We have lots of tractor choices and they are, for the most part Big 3 dealers. The closest Kioti shop is an hour away, and he just added the line.

It is my belief that 2nd tier manufacturers like Kioti and probably Mahindra, and maybe a few others that have small to medium framed tractors with lots of options and especially HST, tend to thrive in areas where the Big 3 are arrogant and not competitive.

I would also say, that for the most part, we are talking about moving dirt, hauling mulch, tilling a garden, mowing the lawn, and digging & dragging a few stumps when we are talking about users on this forum who buy Compact Utility Tractors. I would also say that building a machine that can do these things efficiently, comfortably, and safely is not rocket science!

So if the Big 3 are not willing to sell at realistic prices, then maybe brand #4 or #5 should seriously look at developing their brands into those non-competitve markets. If it was me, I would seriously consider it.

In my part of the country Kioti is slowly spreading, while Mahindra, Branson, Century, & Long are basically unkown brands.

 

[beenthere]

That's why you guys get those big bucks out there, so you can afford the toys, etc. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[DAP]

Bill you raise another good point central to this rant. 70 miles in east tejas is like 150 miles in my area. Population density is part of the TIME issue and PRICE issue simultaneously. As for the rest of NE, getting around rural areas is still somewhat different to the wide open spaces you enjoy down there.

And I have checked out a number of those 'dealers'. 70 miles in this area can easibly be a 2 hour drive. I'm talking about a dealer down the road kinda thing.

Guess what. While I grant you I haven't checked out ALL of them, the ones I did were selling Tier 2 machines very near Tier I prices. How bout this .. Agco SX30 w/ FEL R4s, for 19,800. I consider Agco to be Tier 2.

In other words, there were only minimal price differences quoted to me between say a Mahindra 3015 HST and a JD 4210 or a B7800 or a TC30, etc.

Big surprise there, huh? I make this argument in the midst of the thread.

 

[KiotiJohn]

I must say that what you compare should really be comparable tractors to make the comparison fair. Apples to apples dust to dust you know. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif John

 

[DAP]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It is my belief that 2nd tier manufacturers like Kioti and probably Mahindra, and maybe a few others that have small to medium framed tractors with lots of options and especially HST, tend to thrive in areas where the Big 3 are arrogant and not competitive.)</font>

Bob .. only somewhat to my surprise and perhaps to yours as well, I've found that in my general region, the non-Big 3 vendors seem to take the approach that there machine IS just as good as Green, Orange or Blue and will sell it for very near the same price.

Granted, it IS tempting to believe the hype that acompanies Tier 2 machines 'SAVE THOUSANDS - WHY PAY MORE FOR LESS' - is actually true and in some areas I've seen it is. This is not always the case however. This is definetly true of the Mahindra, Massey, Cub Cadet quotes I've gotten. I've not gotten any quotes on Kioti from the nearest vendor yet. (BTW I believe the nearest Kioti vendor is a Car Dealer type arrangement, but don't hole me to it. I won't hunt that dog anyway).

Again.. if you're theory were correct, the product would dictate the price, not the demographics. This is my central point.

 

[om21braz]

I hate you have such a situation on your hands. Buying here in NC will sure get you a better price - if you can get service when you need it. I've got a bit of a decision to make myself. I can buy Kubota slightly cheaper than Deere, although I believe I'd rather have a Deere - but the Kubota dealer has done me right in the past on lawn equipment. And a big plus at the Kubota dealer is that he rents implements (tiller, rake, PHD, etc.) at very reasonable rates to customers. No Deere dealer around rents any kind of implements and I have no idea about service at any of the JD dealers.
Hope you come to a decision you are happy with a few years down the road. Good Luck !