A Question for Sailors

   / A Question for Sailors #271  
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   / A Question for Sailors #272  
I'm just getting caught up on this thread.

I installed Loran C in helicopters in the early 80s. At that time, it was great for oil rig flights. But not for the open ocean.
hugs, Brandi

Why not? I used it in the early 70's on C-141s over the Pacific with the GLC charts, although it's not as precise as today's navigation tools. It would not work for terminal navigation. There was also Loran D that was more accurate, but shorter range.
 
   / A Question for Sailors #274  
I graduated from a Maritime Academy in 2007 with a USCG 3rd Mates unlimited tonnage license and spent May 2007-February 2017 (just took a shore-side job a few months ago now) as a deck officer on civilian run ships...2007-2011 on civilian manned USN ships (cargo and special mission ships for the Navy are run by civilian mariners, not active duty military) and then 2011-2017 on drillships.

I spent a total of about 3-months on actual USN ships (as a cadet only, 2 destroyers and an amphib) as well as countless hours sailing alongside them (as 3rd and 2nd Mate) during UNREPs and just general navigating in the vicinity of them, here is what I know.

USN ships are manned by an abundance of bodies, I dont recall there ever being less than 6 or so and often times 10+. In my time as a Mate we rarely had more than 3, most often 2 and it was not at all uncommon for me to run the bridge solo. While it might seem having 6-10+ on a bridge makes it safer I would disagree. One trained mariner running the bridge solo will focus on the task at hand while multiple guys on a dark bridge underway at night can very easily fall into complacency, thinking "someone else" is looking out.

The USNS ships I sailed on all had autopilot of course, however none had any sort of auto-nav features...meaning I would enter in the compass course I wanted the iron mike to steer and the vessel would maintain that heading, no further input went into it. It did not account for set/drift, it did not adjust speed up or down, it simply held a compass course. The mariner would need to adjust as required to stay on track, follow the plotted track line, or adjust for traffic. Now I cant say for certain, but I am quite sure DDG's in particular are setup with the same systems, a "dumb" autopilot if you will.

The much more advanced drillships I spent my time on did infact have systems where I could plot a track and tell the ship to follow that specific track. It would adjust heading (to adjust for set/drift) as needed to keep the vessel within X-meters of the trackline, and would actually change heading as needed on waypoints to follow the track. In my 6+ years on those ships we never once used that system for anything other than just testing or "playing around" with it during trials etc. The very idea of putting control of the vessels piloting in the hands of a computer system alone would be crazy to any trained mariner.

Now at this time I need to mention...the sea is FULL of ships and mariners from all over the world. US and European mariners in particular are very well trained and follow the "rules of the road" quite well. A lot of asian, middle eastern, and other places Mariners....not so much. For us a 1 nautical mile CPA (closest point of approach) is acceptable. To a Phillipino mariner? Not hitting another ship is acceptable. So there are different standards.

If I had to speculate here is what I think may have happened. The container ship was infact in an auto-track mode, with a mariner "on watch" that was either sleeping or a few decks down making a sandwich or who knows... The USN ship was underway and saw the cargo ship on its current course/speed and did infact have an acceptable CPA (closest point of approach). The container ship came to a waypoint in its track and on its own made a course change that put itself on a collision course with the Destroyer. Now at this point the only real reason I can see why the Destroyer would not have made the necessary change to avoid collision is that they did not realize the container ship changed course and was now on a collision course. Whether they werent paying attention or what I cant tell you, but if they were maintaining an acceptable CPA the entire time prior to then the cargo ships course change wouldnt have put it into a collision immediately, they would have had time to maneuver.

Maybe the Destroyer tried contacting them via VHF either prior to or during being on a collision course...or maybe they didnt...it doesnt much matter because its very common to try hailing a foreign flag cargo vessel on VHF to discuss passing arrangements and get no response, that isnt something that necessarily raises red flags. USN ships typically contact other vessels via VHF unnecessarily anyway, in my experience it often creates a more hazardous situation when you try discussing arrangements with non-english speaking mariners and is usually better to SHOW them what you want to do with your ship, meaning make a large course change one way or another so its obvious what you're doing, versus trying to talk it out over the radio.

Its hard to speculate just based on the little info Ive read, but ultimately both vessels are at fault when a collision occurs.
 
   / A Question for Sailors #275  
Couple other things to comment on:

"The Fitzgerald's AIS data was not available so its track was not reported publicly" - Ive never, not once, seen a USN ship display their AIS information. I sorta get it...military ship and all. However when you see the running lights and radar signature of a large ship and see no AIS its pretty much a guarantee that its a Navy ship.

"After impact, the freighter's was not immediately aware that it had collided with anything and continued sailing. The ship's crew then realized it had been in a collision and sailed back to try to determine what had happened." - I find this hard to believe. If you hit another ship you'll know. More likely they were panicked and just didnt have their heads on straight enough to turn around immediately.

"For the Navy, investigators are trying to determine why the ship's radar and other sensors did not detect the Crystal in time to take steps to avoid the collision." - these radar systems are useless without a human monitoring them! Sure you can SET CPA alarms, so itll beep at you if it auto tracks a target and determines a CPA <whatever you set. I can tell you right now, we never had radars set to automatically start tracking targets because they cant tell the difference between a ship, a little fishing boat, or just some junk return. If you tell the radar to track targets on its own itll be tracking every dot on the screen and be a total mess. And alarms for <whatever CPA are not just a given...they need to be set and in my experience rarely were. The mariners job is to monitor these radars and make decisions based on the info.
 
   / A Question for Sailors #276  
Navy issues new sleep and watch schedule rules for the surface fleet



In an internal Navy message issued Friday, Rowden said surface fleet skippers will be required to implement watch schedules and shipboard routines that better sync with circadian rhythms and natural sleep cycles.

Such a move aims to give sailors a more consistent and less erratic sleep schedule, resulting in a more rested and alert crew.




Bruce
 
   / A Question for Sailors #277  

Interesting.

In a nod to old-school seamanship, and regardless of any installed radar capability, Rowden痴 message also dictates that maneuvering boards will be used by both the bridge and combat information center for all vessel contacts with an initial closest point of approach of 5,000 yards or less.

Closest point of approach is a nautical calculation used to gauge collision risk.

This seems to imply that the CIC was not being used/or partially used to navigate the ship.

Navy ships steaming in high-traffic areas will now use the automatic identification system, or AIS, which is used to track movement aboard commercial vessels

Surprised they will be turning on AIS.

Much of the article is about sleep and it does surprise me that the surface fleet has been operating the way it has been compared to aviation and submarine units.

Later,
Dan
 
   / A Question for Sailors #278  
// is usually better to SHOW them what you want to do with your ship, meaning make a large course change one way or another so its obvious what you're doing, versus trying to talk it out over the radio.
Great info.

Sailing or under power in Boston Harbor you almost always have a land site so you can tell in seconds if you are going to cross near other vessels. It’s easy to make a distinct change of course so they know what your intentions are.

On a summer weekend in Boston Harbor, other than the pros I assume no one knows ROW and is paying attention. It’s the old joke, I know I’m paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
 
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