A suggestion for John D and others

   / A suggestion for John D and others #11  
I would offer up that a dealer giving "safety" classes who left something out, could actually be putting him/herself in more jeopardy of being sued. It's rather like when pharmacies started getting sued because they mentioned "some" of the possible side effects of a drug without mentioning ALL of the known possibles. At first, many pharmacies simply didn't tell any of the possibles, and then started making printouts to hand out with the meds.
MFGs of tractors put safety labels on the tractors and implements, and have extensive safety sections in their manuals, and probably woudn't encourage a dealer to go over all of the possibles for fear that something left out would occur and then everyone would be sued for not telling it.
This is only a guess on my part.
Actually, I imagine we'd all be rather shocked if we knew how little some DEALERS actually know about safety issues themselves.
John
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others #12  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Having recently had a bit of a scare on my 2210 tractor, I have been thinking about the orientation to the tractor that I got when i bought it. (the salesman delivered it and spent about 15 minutes showing me the major controls, handed me the books, and said good luck). Before I even started the tractor I read every word in the books, and tried my best to educate myself by reading some safety tips on the internet.

Seems to me that every tractor dealer, and certainly JD, ought to regularly offer safety classes for new owners, etc. We all know that big box home improvement stores offer classes in how to drywall, how to build a deck, etc. Why not offer an occasional safety class on the local dealership for people like me who love their tractors, but don't know very much about how truly powerful these machines are. I know there are tapes out there, and programs for kid safety on farms. But, it sure would have helped to have a true orientation and safety session.....at least, for me.
I have learned MUCH more from this site than from the dealer. MUCH more!
anyway, just a thought........dealers, if you hold classes, people will come, and when they do, they will be motivated to BUY. Get it??? )</font>

I worked for American Honda back in the 80's... That was about the time 4-wheelers caught on. Honda's biggest concern was if they gave saftey courses, and left out one little detail, or a student MISSED one little detail, that MIGHT open them up for more liability than if they'd not offered their services to tell you "how to be safe"....

Later on down the line, insurance company demands, as well as government requirements saw Honda deem it neccisary to start saftey classes for anyone buying a new 4-wheeler. A good friend of mine built a facility to give these courses. He contracted from Honda to "teach" people how to act responsible.... He was killed ON A 4-WHEELER, while drinking.....

You can't educate or legislate common sense..........

Also, I see things a little different than some, obviously.... My opinion is that someone who doesn't have the practical sense, nor the COMMON sense to operate a piece of equipment safley ,they shouldn't be on that piece of equipment in the first place.....

I know this will draw the wrath of a few folks, that's the chance I take.....
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others #13  
Indy.. I agree fully and that was the basis behind my post in this thread.

Some people just don't have the common sense God gave a rock and then they want to sue for their idiocy.

I'd like to add one more item to this paragraph in my previous post:
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If it spins.. don't get near it while it is spinning. If it is steep stay off of it. If if is hot, don't touch it. If there are people around, don't run it. If it makes very loud grinding noises, it is broke, get it fixed. If it is loose, tighten it. If its on fire put it out. )</font>
If you don't know what it does, don't touch it.

Those are not safety items.. those are common sense items and if someone has to have those concepts taught to them, then its a lost cause already.
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others #14  
<font color="purple"> Honda's biggest concern was if they gave saftey courses, and left out one little detail, or a student MISSED one little detail, that MIGHT open them up for more liability than if they'd not offered their services to tell you "how to be safe"....
</font>


It is a crying shame that we can't get safety classes because we are concerned that lawyers will sue on behalf of stupid people!

What I know is that in my family, my brother is ONLY allowed to use one tool. It is called Duct Tape. Anything else in his hands is really an accident waiting to happen, and requires a preemptive call to the emergency room to have a place ready for either him or some innocent bystander. The fact that our family is responsible enough to take tools away from him is really an asset to all humanity. HOWEVER, there are many families that allow klutzy family members to do things like play with fire, use power tools, have sharp objects, and worst yet, to buy tractors! For those families and those people we really need OPTIONAL basic operating classes!
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I do agree with those who have suggested that teaching safety potentially opens the door to certain risks for liability. In the healthcare world, we live with these kinds of risks every day. My thought,and original idea, was that the dealers could offer general safety classes for people who wish to attend, as an educational tool. In this kind of situation, the dealer would have no liability, just as a fire department has no liability if it offers a class in proper rubbish management and someone who attends later has a brush fire because of improper disposal of debris. I suppose we could argue the point, but it seems to somehow miss the spirit of my original post........i.e., that I wish I had learned more up front. I DO recognize that it is MY responsibility to be safe, and to educate myself.
As to the point about people lacking common sense not operating this kind of heavy equipment, you won't get much argument from me. Given the number of drunk driving accidents we have, the point seems obvious. I am reminded of the television show "Blue Collar Comedy" where the guy says, "Here's your sign", referring to stupid people. LOL.
I will, however, give myself a little bit of a pat on the back in that I did take the initiative to learn everything I could, did read every word of my manuals, did find and study this wonderful site, and have spent many hours actually learning through experience on the tractor. Lucky for me I live nearby some great neighbors who were practically born on a tractor seat, and who don't mind answering the questions of a tractor dweeb.
All the debate about liability and risk aside, I am really glad to hear that others have had good experiences with their dealers......who have taken the time and trouble to really educate new buyers/owners. That's the way it should be.
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others #16  
Maybe an "aptitude test" would be more effective, as a prerequisite to purchasing a tractor/implement, than saftey classes "after the fact"....
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others #17  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It is a crying shame that we can't get safety classes because we are concerned that lawyers will sue on behalf of stupid people! )</font>

I would agree, and your comment reminds me of years back (70's) when I became aware of a company that had invented an alarm that would detect SIDs (Sudden Infant Death syndrome) victims. The alarm would sound if the infant in the crib stopped breathing. The company could not get any liability insurance to protect them from a devastating suit if the device failed to detect SIDs. Even though the company thought theirs was nearly fool-proof, it did not go on the market.
How many baby's may have been lost over the years because of that 'black' cloud, both from the failure to insure, to the ambulance-chasing lawyers, to the sue-happy society (and I include judges, lawyers, and greedy people here)?

As an aside, I don't think anyone should reap big bucks off of someone else's death. For a decapacitating injury, a reasonable award yes, but death, little to no 'reward'. In the case of negligence, like backing over a child with a mower, the person doing it and 'his' insurance company should be the only one responsible and paying. The court systems is nuts and has been for many years. Thanks to lawyers in high places like legislators, it will likely not change.
Our fear of being liable has cost us dearly, in freedoms, common sense decisions, and lots of money (thinking of medical costs here).
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others #18  
Like Indy noted, if you change the wording it may be better.

I would think that in all cases of this post if the word "safety" was substituted with "training" most of the liability would go away. You're then attending an educational class not specifically geared towards any single area.

Not sure about other states but in PA they will actually pay you $100 for attending an ATV safety/training class.
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others
  • Thread Starter
#19  
you are right, bczoom....good point!
 
   / A suggestion for John D and others #20  
I have purchased two Polaris ATV's in the last 4 years and both times I had to sit down and watch a 20 minute tape. I think it was 20 minutes. It was more of a safety video than a how to operate video. Then I had to drive the ATV around in the parking lot of the dealer and show him I could drive it. He gave me commands and I reacted. This is somewhat good I guess but being around equipment all of my life I thought it was a nuisance somewhat. I had to sign off that I went through the mini course.

When I got my TC21D and my TC29D the dealer had a long checklist that he went through and again I had to sign off.

But in both cases for some I more in depth course would be good.


murph
 

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