A travesty you should know about

[DarinRay]

Again I have found an area where I deem fit to comment. You say that rodeo's and rancher's have false rumors about them. Did you ever think that maybe just maybe all racher's don't care for their animals the way you or all the places that you have seen? I mean come on, to think that everything that you've seen first hand is the way that everything is happening in crazy and that's just not the way it is. I will also state that some animal rights people do go overboard but also some animal raisers go overboard on their poor treatment to animals. I would never say that all ranchers treat their animals poorly just like you shoudln't say that there are no mistreatments out there period.

I just say that everyone should always keep an open mind. Period. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Darin

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>My gosh what is it with this sacred cow issue that you can't eat a horse? It's no more cruel than ordering up a burger.</font color=blue>

Whew! That ought to upset some folks, but I agree with you./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif We have some friends who've told us that horse steaks are very good. He's retired military, married a French girl when he was stationed over there, and they've told us about the first steak she cooked after they got married and he ate it without knowing it was horse./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif He wouldn't have eaten it if he'd known, but found that it was very good.

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Darin,
If you'll reread my posts I did say that there was cruelty to animals but it's across the board it's not just horses, but that is the exception rather than the rule. Your comment about what I've seen first hand and that's just not quite true. You're quite wrong though sir and until you've walked a mile in a person's shoes or even know one thing about what I'm talking about then you shouldn't see yourself deemed fit to comment. I have been all across this country to ranches, ranching operations, etc. I have seen them from one end of the country to the other so I know what goes on. Well this is where this kind of stuff gets started. I'm sure you haven't been to many ranches or that you have never been to a premarin mare farm or ranch but you don't think that someone like me who has been all across the country to them, grew up on them, and lived on them doesn't know. Well heck Darin if I don't know what it's like then who does? Like I said in my first post there is abuse and there is neglect and there is a need for animal rescue shelters but it is not the rule and these premarin mares are not abused like it's said they are either. Sure you may come across a breeder here and there that is bad but you've got a bad apple in every crowd and profession. In my earlier days when I had more time and less money I spent a great deal of time at some of these ranches buying alot of horses where the Premarin babies are raised in N. Dakota and Canada. Most of them raised some decent stock and I could buy them for a song and fit them or keep them a year or two and train them and make a buck. I paid for alot of my college this way so I do know what I'm talking about here. I spent two hours after work tonight tracking down this latest article. So no don't take my somehow tainted view of it in your eyes but take Dr. Robert Miller's view. If you'll do a little research you'll see he's one of the foremost authorities in this country on horses. His views and assessment of the situation is pretty much how I have seen it over the last 15 years.

Yes I do think that I have a right to talk here on this subject. I have the subject of ridicule and had stuff thrown on me and my horses injured at rodeos because of this kind of stupid propaganda crap by protesters. They take one situation or a little bit of truth about one thing and make the gospel out of it and that is just plain not right. I see you are from New York and no there aren't many ranches out there so you probably don't know what I am talking about and that is ok. But when you've been on the other end of these wackos ways it's not too pleasant. You have blood and animal parts thrown on you, your truck and trailer trashed, your animals stolen, your wife and kids called filthy names, and then tell me again how I don't know what the whole story is.

Here is the article from Western Horseman. I'll try and track down the others as well. You make your own mind up about it. Do you want to believe some people who have absolutely no research, no background, no degree, or anything else's word or someone who has spent their life devoted to the health and welfare of horses and is a veterinarian and noted research doctor's word.

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: A travesty you should know about *DELETED*

Post deleted by Muhammad

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

cowboydoc,

Thanks for taking the time to post the article.

Al

 

[DarinRay]

Richard,

I just did reread your post and here is a part "But again they are not mistreated in any way shape or form!!!". That did strike me as odd. When I was stating my feeling and views I didn't mean to undermine you and most definately didn't want to disrespect you. It's unfortunate that I made you feel taht you needed to back yourself up. ALthough that's good that you can, you see on my side all I read is that there isn't any horse brutality or something and I feel that without seeing everything everwhere then that statement isn't supported. Without reading all the attachments tonight I am only commenting on how I deem it fit to comment on my views as limited as they may be to these kinds of statements. Anyway as far as what else you stated "until you've walked a mile in a person's shoes or even know one thing about what I'm talking about then you shouldn't see yourself deemed fit to comment." I can't believe you even said that when that is exactly how people learn that don't have the abilitly to have such background. If I wouldn't comment then how can I possibly be taught or redirected? This is the only reason why I even commented and you said it after saying that it simply doesn't happen period. (Sure you may come across a breeder here and there that is bad but you've got a bad apple in every crowd and profession) That's it!!! Nothing meant really about you personally for I've learned alot from this board and from people like you and yes I do throw in my uneducated comments so I can be corrected. But anyway/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I'm finished.

[[Yes I do think that I have a right to talk here on this subject. I have the subject of ridicule and had stuff thrown on me and my horses injured at rodeos because of this kind of stupid propaganda crap by protesters. They take one situation or a little bit of truth about one thing and make the gospel out of it and that is just plain not right. I see you are from New York and no there aren't many ranches out there so you probably don't know what I am talking about and that is ok. But when you've been on the other end of these wackos ways it's not too pleasant. You have blood and animal parts thrown on you, your truck and trailer trashed, your animals stolen, your wife and kids called filthy names, and then tell me again how I don't know what the whole story is.]]

Actually this explains your defensivness which is most definately justified. This is exactly what I was referring to when saying that these animal rights people get way to carried away and dont' like to hear about people like you being subjected to this. I sure am not slamming you here and hope that I've explained myself to some extent.


Darin

 

[ERNIEB]

I can't speak for all animal raisers, but I think I can speak for cattle ranchers since I've known some all my life.
A rancher who neglects or abuses his cattle is not going to be in buisness very long. It just is not profitable. Without going into detail, it's true of a cow/calf operation, stockers, or feedlot.
Cattlemen are as human as anyone else, they sometimes miscalculate, use poor judgement or just make a mistake. I know of several small ranchers who have a certain number of cows that are not much more than a leather bag of bones. They produce no calfs. The truth is these are very, very old cows that the rancher has gotten so attached to, that he can't bring himself to take them to auction.
I have a few cows myself, and two of them are real pets. We raised them on bottles, and they are almost part of the family. They are only 5 years old now, but the day will come when I will have to make the same decision. It is not something I look forward to.
It really makes me angry when these animal rights people seize on this to fan emotional flames, they're main goal being to increase donations. To be honest, I've heard so much innuendo, half truths, and outright lies from these groups. I wouldn't believe them if they said day was light, and night was dark.

Ernie

 

[PBMAX]

The thing that kills me is that in this country if you have a group show a few picture on the news or in a magazine and get some well known(or famous) person(s).To spout info about things they probable haven't seen 1st hand they get people all ramped up.With little or no evidence.Don't get me wrong if some one is suspected of animal cruelty they should be looked into by the proper authoritys.The people that can do the job and get it done right.If they do find it.then they should be delt with to the full extent of the law.

On a lighter note.Having been in the Nav I have traveld abit...The best steak I've eaten was in Brazil...They don't or didn't at the time feed their cows the way we do.Thiers were all graze fed...No steroids etc..Man says somethign for razing your own beef...

Laziness is the Father of invention.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Lil' Paul
Proud owner of TC21D

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>if you have a group show a few picture on the news or in a magazine and get some well known(or famous) person(s) to spout info about things they probable haven't seen 1st hand...</font color=blue>

kinda like Sissy Spasic (sic?) going before Congress to talk about a farm bill because she played a farm wife in a movie.

 

[RichZ]

Richard, thanks for posting that article. It clears up alot of the half truths that I was led to believe. I admit that when I started this post, I only had one side of this story, and I should have done some research before I called it a travesty. I apologize to all, because, as a trainned scientist, I am usually much more analytical. This is an emotional issue. I love animals, and horses are near the top of my list, so I was outraged when I learned about this. As Richard (Cowboydoc) has pointed out, it would make little sense to abuse the horses if your business depends on them.
My own problem with this whole thing is my personal bias of considering horses pets, and therefore off limits to being used for food. But as I said, that's my own personal bias, you can agree or disagree, there's no right or wrong there. If you feel like I do, then adopt one (or more) of the PMU foals if you are able to (That's what I'm in the process of doing.).
As I said this is an emotional issue from both ends. I understand why Richard is very defensive, because of his rodeo experiences, and my main regret in starting this whole post, is that it has caused much anxiety to Richard, who has been a very good advisor and friend to me as a neophyte horse owner. There is no one I have more respect for than Richard when it comes to horses (and of course orthropedics, and I used to be a health care inspector!). I hope he will continue to be my advisor and friend, if he's not too mad at me for starting this whole controversy.
The best outcome for this whole thing I can hope for is to stimulate some people to adopt some PMU foals (as Richard himself has done!!).

Rich