About those three-colored cats ...

[dave1949]

almost always being female cats.

Cats 101: Why are tri-colored cats usually female? - New Orleans pet services | Examiner.com

How about a "geep"?
Sheep

Chimera on Pinterest | 30 Pins
"Mosaics and chimeras are animals that have more than one genetically-distinct population of cells. In mosaics, the genetically different cell types all arise from a single zygote, whereas chimeras originate from more than one zygote. Mosaics are not uncommon; in fact, roughly half of the mammals on earth are a type of mosaic. A chimera, on the other hand, is not something you're likely to come across unless you are an experimental embryologist or raise cattle."

What about us, any human chimeras around?
Understanding Genetics

As it turns out, more people than previously expected carry multiple genomes in their DNA in a condition known as mosaicism. You can have different DNA in different parts of your body. Interestingly, under the right circumstances, a cheek swab DNA forensic sample could exonerate the true perpetrator.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/s...f-dna-carries-legacy-of-risk.html?ref=science

mosaicism
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/science/dna-double-take.html


Explaining "the birds and the bees" is getting harder all the time. The expanding science of DNA is developing some interesting information. Of course, it has nothing to do with tractors other than something to think about while tractoring.

 

[k0ua]

almost always being female cats.

Cats 101: Why are tri-colored cats usually female? - New Orleans pet services | Examiner.com

How about a "geep"?
Sheep

Chimera on Pinterest | 30 Pins
"Mosaics and chimeras are animals that have more than one genetically-distinct population of cells. In mosaics, the genetically different cell types all arise from a single zygote, whereas chimeras originate from more than one zygote. Mosaics are not uncommon; in fact, roughly half of the mammals on earth are a type of mosaic. A chimera, on the other hand, is not something you're likely to come across unless you are an experimental embryologist or raise cattle."

What about us, any human chimeras around?
Understanding Genetics

As it turns out, more people than previously expected carry multiple genomes in their DNA in a condition known as mosaicism. You can have different DNA in different parts of your body. Interestingly, under the right circumstances, a cheek swab DNA forensic sample could exonerate the true perpetrator.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/s...f-dna-carries-legacy-of-risk.html?ref=science

mosaicism
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/science/dna-double-take.html


Explaining "the birds and the bees" is getting harder all the time. The expanding science of DNA is developing some interesting information. Of course, it has nothing to do with tractors other than something to think about while tractoring.

Rut Roh!.. It is not just the things I learned in science classes 45 years ago that have been proven wrong, it is also things I have learned recently now seem in doubt. Well science marches on.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Dave, That wiki article about geeps is not correct. I could not get the link to TIME magazine, but there were geeps before 1984. It happens naturally from time to time, and although rare, is not spectacularly rare. I have no idea of numbers, but the last time I saw a photograph of one it was accompanied by a fairly well-written article. My understanding from that was that they are not fertile - like a Mule.

I know a lot less about cats, but again my understanding is that tri-coloured cats are female or neither sex. A "male" tri-coloured, is not in fact a male, and as the link you gave stated, they are infertile. I believe they are the same as a reasonably common occurrence in polled goats (I bred a few before I discovered the reason) and are of neither sex but show male rather than female genitalia.

Something more to think about whilst tractoring, and I am pleased somebody else's mind wanders as much as mine does when going round and round or up and down a field for a few hours.

 

[texasjohn]

verrrry interrrresting!!

 

[dave1949]

Dave, That wiki article about geeps is not correct. I could not get the link to TIME magazine, but there were geeps before 1984. It happens naturally from time to time, and although rare, is not spectacularly rare. I have no idea of numbers, but the last time I saw a photograph of one it was accompanied by a fairly well-written article. My understanding from that was that they are not fertile - like a Mule.

I know a lot less about cats, but again my understanding is that tri-coloured cats are female or neither sex. A "male" tri-coloured, is not in fact a male, and as the link you gave stated, they are infertile. I believe they are the same as a reasonably common occurrence in polled goats (I bred a few before I discovered the reason) and are of neither sex but show male rather than female genitalia.

Something more to think about whilst tractoring, and I am pleased somebody else's mind wanders as much as mine does when going round and round or up and down a field for a few hours.

Not that I know or have any experience , but apparently there is a distinction between a chimera goat-sheep (a mosaic of unique sheep and goat DNAs), and a hybrid goat-sheep (a blend of DNAs). Some of the hybrid goat-sheep studied had 57 chromosomes. A sheep has 54 and a goat has 60 normally.

Sheep

I did read of some strange behaviors exhibited by three-color 'male' cats.

Whatever the case, having DNA sequencing available, and at a cost now most researchers can afford, is providing new insights. Even on basic questions like, what makes a male a male, the blurry lines of androgyny, and normal sexual dimorphism.

Like James noted, not everything once presented as a simple truth turns out to be simple or entirely true. That is the beauty of never ending science, it's like an infinite field to go round and round refining truth. Thinking about it, what a blessing the Information Age has been to wandering minds.

 

[Xfaxman]

:shocked: Information overload! :shocked:

 

[OldMcDonald]

Not that I know or have any experience , but apparently there is a distinction between a chimera goat-sheep (a mosaic of unique sheep and goat DNAs), and a hybrid goat-sheep (a blend of DNAs). Some of the hybrid goat-sheep studied had 57 chromosomes. A sheep has 54 and a goat has 60 normally.

I do have experience, but definitely not the knowledge to let me disagree with the statement, and it does seem logical. One is genetic manipulation through human intervention and the other is a natural mating. According to the new link you gave there have been a few born this year that have been reported, and I assume many that were not, so it is probably more common than I had thought. A word of caution though - it is difficult to know whether many breeds are sheep or goats just by looking at them, and it is even worse with mongrels. Huge numbers of sheep and goats around the world are mongrels.

I have just remembered that before we came to Portugal we had a cock pheasant living amongst close to 2000 free ranging hens (domestic fowl) for a while and after witnessing many frustrations eventually saw him mate with a hen. There was no hope of identifying and catching the hen to see if subsequent eggs would hatch.

If (as the article states) some of these are fertile and then breed, creating a new species, it causes a problem for creationism. I will not be joining in any argument for or against, but Darwin was a creationist. He wrote that himself. I forget in which of his books. I am also sceptical about the fertility of a goat/sheep hybrid. I think there would have been many examples of such back-crossing in the last few decades if any were found to be fertile and there would have been at least one breed society set up by people who thought they could make money out of it.

 

[dave1949]

I do have experience, but definitely not the knowledge to let me disagree with the statement, and it does seem logical. One is genetic manipulation through human intervention and the other is a natural mating. According to the new link you gave there have been a few born this year that have been reported, and I assume many that were not, so it is probably more common than I had thought. A word of caution though - it is difficult to know whether many breeds are sheep or goats just by looking at them, and it is even worse with mongrels. Huge numbers of sheep and goats around the world are mongrels.

I have just remembered that before we came to Portugal we had a cock pheasant living amongst close to 2000 free ranging hens (domestic fowl) for a while and after witnessing many frustrations eventually saw him mate with a hen. There was no hope of identifying and catching the hen to see if subsequent eggs would hatch.

If (as the article states) some of these are fertile and then breed, creating a new species, it causes a problem for creationism. I will not be joining in any argument for or against, but Darwin was a creationist. He wrote that himself. I forget in which of his books. I am also sceptical about the fertility of a goat/sheep hybrid. I think there would have been many examples of such back-crossing in the last few decades if any were found to be fertile and there would have been at least one breed society set up by people who thought they could make money out of it.

That all sounds logical.

I think this topic doesn't really speak to creationism. An evolutionist can also be a creationist if it is thought that the origin of (all) life--as opposed to the origin's of species--is improbably explained by any known mechanism.

I meant to ask you how you came to be breeding/the reason behind these goats?
"I believe they are the same as a reasonably common occurrence in polled goats (I bred a few before I discovered the reason) and are of neither sex but show male rather than female genitalia."

Another question regarding mosiacs; How does a body with different tissues supplied by a common circulatory system avoid rejecting itself? The immune system response must not recognize the multi-flavor DNA for some reason. Or, from birth the immune system has duality of some sort.

 

[texasjohn]

Am glad to see that there are still people who continue to respect science and its continuing advancement. Am tired of those who believe that their unique answer/understanding is true, even to be aggressively imposed on others, ignoring or denying scientific evidence and repeatable experiments/analysis.

Perhaps this explains but does not excuse it.

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope, 1709

 

[dave1949]

:shocked: Information overload! :shocked:

No such thing.

Knowledge is a rushing torrent from which you may sip and nourish your mind as desired.

Besides that, retired folks need something to do with their free time; something plausibly useful is out of the question. :laughing: