About To Drill Well - Have Some Questions

[Pettrix]

Is Schedule 120 PVC pipe at 1.25 diameter good from the well pump to the well head?

One installer offered Schedule 80 PVC

10 Gauge Electric Wire

3/4" Hose Bib

 

[CurlyDave]

I think the Schedule 120 1.25" PVC pipe is good.

When I look at the specs, Schedule 80 PVC is probably adequate, but the extra cost of the schedule 120 is not that big and provides a greater safety margin.

I would ask about the extra cost of 8 ga copper wire, especially if I was looking at a 20 gpm pump. I would never want to skimp on what goes down a well.

 

[Valveman]

I got priced for the Goulds pump with 119 gallon pressure tank ($1k) and it came out to $6k total.

The Franklin constant pressure pump with controller came out to $4.5k

5-year warranty on the Franklin pump and controller

A 119 gallon pressure tank only holds about 30 gallons of water, a 20 GPM pump is still going to cycle a lot. If the Franklin constant pressure system is 4.5K, the CSV system should be about 3 to 3.5K and you would not be needing a 5 year warranty. The low cost and long life of a CSV system is precisely the reason very few installers will start out with that option.

And Sch 120 pipe with belled ends is good, as well as sch 80 as long as you use metal threaded couplings.

 

[Pumpmd]

I got priced for the Goulds pump with 119 gallon pressure tank ($1k) and it came out to $6k total.

The Franklin constant pressure pump with controller came out to $4k

Your Traditional Pump System should've been around 3-3.5k with the big tank. 5yr warranty and 1yr labor as well.

 

[Pettrix]

Your Traditional Pump System should've been around 3-3.5k with the big tank. 5yr warranty and 1yr labor as well.

A lot of variables. Location and well depth.

Well depth was 500 so that's :

• 480 feet of SCH 120 PVC drop pipe (100 feet perforated pipe) with Stainless Steel Couplers
• 480 feet of well cable wire
• pump shroud & torque arrestor
• 3 stainless check valves
• Stainless 3HP Goulds Pump & Motor
• VFD Controller
• 5-year parts and labor warranty

A standard well pump at that depth that has hard starts could break the PVC pipe. Well companies usually will not install a standard well pump at that depth using PVC. They will require galvanized (rust) or stainless steel ($$$) drop pipe. A soft-start VFD Gould's pump starts to ramp up slowly and then shuts down slowly. A standard pump just has ON/OFF and the torque created from the hard starts/hard stops puts extreme stress on PVC pipes that deep. A Goulds VFD doesn't do that and is gentle on the pipe when it starts/stops. It uses 3-phase power to control the pump.

There is not one-size-fits-all when it comes to wells. What works in Alabama might not work in Utah or Arizona. A 50' deep well vs a 500' deep well creates different challenges. Some people get 100gpm while others might only see 3gpm. My well produced around 23GPM until the well pump ran out of HP and couldn't keep up with the incoming water. So I probably have around 30gpm or more production.

 

[Pumpmd]

A lot of variables. Location and well depth.

Well depth was 500 so that's :

• 480 feet of SCH 120 PVC drop pipe (100 feet perforated pipe) with Stainless Steel Couplers
• 480 feet of well cable wire
• pump shroud & torque arrestor
• 3 stainless check valves
• Stainless 3HP Goulds Pump & Motor
• VFD Controller
• 5-year parts and labor warranty

A standard well pump at that depth that has hard starts could break the PVC pipe. Well companies usually will not install a standard well pump at that depth using PVC. They will require galvanized (rust) or stainless steel ($$$) drop pipe. A soft-start VFD Gould's pump starts to ramp up slowly and then shuts down slowly. A standard pump just has ON/OFF and the torque created from the hard starts/hard stops puts extreme stress on PVC pipes that deep. A Goulds VFD doesn't do that and is gentle on the pipe when it starts/stops. It uses 3-phase power to control the pump.

There is not one-size-fits-all when it comes to wells. What works in Alabama might not work in Utah or Arizona. A 50' deep well vs a 500' deep well creates different challenges. Some people get 100gpm while others might only see 3gpm. My well produced around 23GPM until the well pump ran out of HP and couldn't keep up with the incoming water. So I probably have around 30gpm or more production.

I have set as far as 420ft on sch120 bells without a pump shroud or torque bumpers with no problems. You had more than enough water flow across the motor by Franklin's chart to have proper cooling. You want to be right above the perf in your well. Did you choose VFD or CSV?

 

[Pettrix]

I have set as far as 420ft on sch120 bells without a pump shroud or torque bumpers with no problems. You had more than enough water flow across the motor by Franklin's chart to have proper cooling. You want to be right above the perf in your well. Did you choose VFD or CSV?

I have the Gould's 3 HP pump and I went with the VFD.

Since the pump is a 3-phase Variable Speed, no CSV setup was needed.

The pump shroud and torque arrestor boot are added safety items. They are inexpensive and easy to do when dropping the pump into the well. I would rather over-engineer it and not have issues later on. The pump shroud helps with keeping the pump cool and the torque arrestor keeps the wiring in place as well as it centers the drop pipe within the casing.

I did it as a homeowner so I wanted to do it right. I've seen too many well installers just do it fast and cheap, only to leave the future homeowner/well owner down the road flipping the bill for repairs. Some idiot well installer put galvanized drop pipe and now 10 years later the pipe rusted and failed. Cost the homeowner close to $8k in repairs. R&R is always more than doing it right the first time.

 

[Pumpmd]

I have the Gould's 3 HP pump and I went with the VFD.

Since the pump is a 3-phase Variable Speed, no hCSV setup was needed.

The pump shroud and torque arrestor boot are added safety items. They are inexpensive and easy to do when dropping the pump into the well. I would rather over-engineer it and not have issues later on. The pump shroud helps with keeping the pump cool and the torque arrestor keeps the wiring place as well as it centers the drop pipe within the casing.

I did it as a homeowner so I wanted to do it right. I've seen too many well installers just do it fast and cheap, only to leave the future homeowner/well owner down the road flipping the bill for repairs. Some idiot well installer put galvanized drop pipe and now 10 years later the pipe rusted and failed. Cost the homeowner close to $8k in repairs. R&R is always more than doing it right the first time.

A Pump shroud is used when you have a top feeding well or when you don't have enough water flow past the motor but it doesn't hurt any if you install one. Torque bumpers were used to protect your wire when your drop pipe & pump don't weigh enough to keep from bouncing off the casing walls every time the pump starts/stops, centering the drop pipe sound good too. Have you ever held a small Residential pump in your hands and started it up to feel their torque?

I like how its put here:

It's all about maintenance. There are no "Jiffy-lube-drive in switch and air tank checkup companies" - The well driller NEVER hands out a maintenance/owners manual. 3/4 of pump houses don't have legible tags on the control boxes, and seems no one writes the well specs near the well head or control box. Big talk here of planned obsolescence of pump motors, but no one owns up to the fact that when a homeowner gets a well, he gets no instructions on keeping it alive. Would you buy car without knowing what engine was in it and when to change the oil? Let all ye pump men who have not sinned throw the first stone! Planned obsolescence for future $$$$$repairs by the well contractors.

My dentist sends me postcards each year to check my teeth. Car dealers send discount cards on oil changes and reminders. How many well guys send out postcards each year reminding homey Joe to check his well tank and switch? Probably a huge chunk of money to be made by doing that and offering a set fee for the basic call. Prevention is always cheaper... but then very few weekend service calls to put the kid in college.

It's a mystery to me how a 10 to $30,000 piece of the most essential equipment on ones property is forgotten until it fails. Like driving your car until the low oil light comes on. Even our vehicle tires talk to us now about their needs.

(Someone else posted) We used to send out yearly service reminder cards, but when you're only getting a 1-2% response rate you stop.

This is what I posted:

I'm tring to come up with something on how to leave specs and instructions on maintaining your pump system that you can attached to the tank besides a business card that is left most the time on the tank or control box and it's for the people that purchase a home or new home with no instructions being left.

Most people back in day knew about maintenance when standard tanks were being used but then Amtrol came along and put maintenance free on their tank. This got people to forget on doing their maintenance and now we are seeing how this is an issue today with alot of poor quality brands. People need to know how to do maintenance to their pump system again.

 

[Pettrix]

The well driller NEVER hands out a maintenance/owners manual. 3/4 of pump houses don't have legible tags on the control boxes, and seems no one writes the well specs near the well head or control box. Big talk here of planned obsolescence of pump motors, but no one owns up to the fact that when a homeowner gets a well, he gets no instructions on keeping it alive. Would you buy car without knowing what engine was in it and when to change the oil? Let all ye pump men who have not sinned throw the first stone! Planned obsolescence for future $$$$$repairs by the well contractors.

It's a mystery to me how a 10 to $30,000 piece of the most essential equipment on ones property is forgotten until it fails. Like driving your car until the low oil light comes on. Even our vehicle tires talk to us now about their needs.

I'm tring to come up with something on how to leave specs and instructions on maintaining your pump system that you can attached to the tank besides a business card that is left most the time on the tank or control box and it's for the people that purchase a home or new home with no instructions being left.

Very well stated!!

It's the old "Out of sight, out of mind"

People don't think about their wells until they turn on the faucet and nothing comes out. Then they scramble around to find out where the well is, what pump it has, how deep is the well, how was it constructed, how old is the pump, are there corrosive metals in well, etc.

When I had my well installed, the well drillers I asked for bids would make statements like; usually homeowners don't get this detailed about our well installs. We just drill and install what we believe is best.

I finally landed a well driller I trusted and probably asked dozens of questions and over-engineered the system but like it was mentioned above. This is a $10k+ piece of equipment and a vital resource (water) and it's forgotten about until it fails.

I am not rich and I don't write checks for $10,000 without knowing everything that is being installed and how and why. In the end, it's me, the homeowner who has to deal with a failed well or poorly designed system.

I'm glad to say I am NOT the 3/4 of people who don't write down the specs of the well near or on the control box. I am the 1/4 that does: (See below)

 

[Valveman]

I have the Gould's 3 HP pump and I went with the VFD. I did it as a homeowner so I wanted to do it right. R&R is always more than doing it right the first time.

I am not rich and I don't write checks for $10,000 without knowing everything that is being installed and how and why. In the end, it's me, the homeowner who has to deal with a failed well or poorly designed system.

I commend you on doing so much research and making up your own mind. However, you should read more reviews and references instead of the sales brochures that you are quoting almost verbatim.

展hen man plans, Mother Nature laughs.納/B]

Please keep us updated on how the system is working.

Here is my prediction, as I have heard this hundreds of times before. In the first 5 years while under warranty you will wake up to no water 2 or 3 times. You will be told that everything electronic has bugs and they just have to de-bug the system, and you will be back in water. They may have to replace the VFD controller, the pressure transducer, or even the motor, but it won稚 cost you (except for being out of water) because it is under warranty.

After the 5 year warranty is up, you will be out of water again. This time they will say there is really nothing they can do but replace the VFD controller and/or the motor and pump. You will also be told that the new VFD controller they are going to sell you is an upgrade, as they have solved the problems inherent in the old VFD controller. Of course the VFD controller you have now is an upgrade of the last VFD controller that had issues. Every couple of years they come out with a new version of the VFD that is supposed to fix all the problems of the last VFD. I have heard this about 12-15 times since 1990, when I was big into VFD痴.

By the time you have to purchase the next VFD controller, you will be way beyond the glossy sales brochures and have much better understanding of pump systems.

You would think the pump installer would not want to lose your business. But he will make more money selling you the original VFD system than he would have made in 30 years on a conventional pump system. So he really won稚 mind if you find a different contractor to work with, as he will be rid of a mad customer.

I hope I am wrong for your sake, but I have been doing this a LONG time.