AC5050 will only start with ether, please advise- we need this thing to run.

[UrbannGuerilla]

Allis Chalmers 5050. Been having issues getting it started (its the summer, in Georgia), it started off as an intermittent problem only SOMETIMES having to use ether to start. Then having to use ether to get it started more and more often. Then that progressively transitioned into having to keep it running WITH small ether shots for about 30 seconds until the engine would keep itself running. First we had the injector pump rebuilt and installed it- problem persisted. Then we installed a new fuel pump, after installing the new fuel pump the tractor started up- but we DID use ether to get it primed. We ran it for 30 minutes or so and shut it off to see if it would restart, it DID restart WITHOUT ether after being off for over an hour. We felt good about the results, should begin spraying tomorrow. The next day we wake up (yesterday) and go to start the tractor to start spraying. Tractor will not start. We attempted to start the tractor WITH ether, and drag it along for 30 seconds or so until it started running on its own. We tried 3 times. It did not start running on its own. We only have this one tractor, peas have been planted weeks ago, its prime time for bugs, its time to spray RIGHT NOW, and we run into this at the worst possible time. PLEASE HELP ME.

 

[RjCorazza]

Fuel, air, and compression are what a diesel needs to run. Have you changed the fuel filters and air filter? If not, I would change the fuel filter and at least look at the air filter.

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

Fuel, air, and compression are what a diesel needs to run. Have you changed the fuel filters and air filter? If not, I would change the fuel filter and at least look at the air filter

Fuel filter was replaced a few weeks ago and air filter was checked/cleaned recently.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Remove the fuel line coming from the fuel tank to the lift pump at the lift pump. There should be a steady stream of fuel flowing out as long as the fuel tank is higher than the lift pump. If it isn't then seal off the fuel tank fill cap with a rag and blow air into the tank. If there isn't a steady stream of fuel then blow air backwards down the pipe into the tank. Hopefully that will get you going. Once your spraying is done then thoroughly clean the tank. Also make sure the tank doesn't have algae or water in it.

 

[RjCorazza]

Bad fuel can clog a fuel filter in a matter of minutes, particularly with bacterial contaminated fuel. Is there any dark slime or specks in the fuel? Don't just assume the fuel is not contaminated with bacteria... Look at the fuel filter element to be sure (if you haven't already).
Other than that, confirm fuel flow by disconnecting lines from the tank out. Check for cracked or poor condition fuel lines that could be sucking air, which could result in a no start condition.
Lastly, I would think a compression test on the engine may be in order. That's about all I got ! I hope you get it running.

 

[5030]

I believe you have used enough either to basically destroy the engine internally. You should NEVER use either to start any modern diesel engine.

 

[jshwhite]

I've seen algae gum up an injector pump so it would do similar to what you're describing. But yeah I would do a compression test. Might have some damage from all the ether.

 

[UrbannGuerilla]

How many PSI should each cylinder average? We got about 250psi per. Compression is 17.1:1 , atmospheric pressure around 14.7 .. would be around 251psi.. right?

 

[thepumpguysc]

300 psi for a compression ignition engine.. minimum.

 

[newbury]

From Google

how many psi should each cylinder average on a diesel engine

Generally, each cylinder should have 300 to 500 PSI, and all cylinders in a single engine should measure within 10 percent of each other. If the compression in the engine is too low, too high or deviates too drastically from one cylinder to the next, you likely have internal damage to your engine.

 

[5030]

"Generally, each cylinder should have 300 to 500 PSI, and all cylinders in a single engine should measure within 10 percent of each other. If the compression in the engine is too low, too high or deviates too drastically from one cylinder to the next, you likely have internal damage to your engine."

I'm pretty sure his use of either contributed to it.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I believe you have used enough either to basically destroy the engine internally. You should NEVER use either to start any modern diesel engine.

I try to spread that same info. Seen a year old tractor ruined in one afternoon.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Maybe injection pump timing is off. But keep spraying ether. Maybe that will eventually repair it

 

[super55]

Sounds likes you still got air in the lines from the high pressure pump to the injectors. Sometimes they require multiple bleeds before you get all the air out.

Crack all the lines on the injectors and crank the engine. When you got a steady stream of fuel while cranking the engine tighten up the fittings on the injectors. If you have a lunging engine. Once started put to full throttle and spray diesel in the air intake with a mist setting to help keep it running and smooth out the lunging engine. Keep a large towel nearby just in case the motor wants to try to runaway on you and you can smother it by putting the towel over the intake.

Being an older model tractor it would seem the fuel pump would have a primer on it somewhere to help keep it running and assist in bleeding out the air.

 

[etpm]

Maybe injection pump timing is off. But keep spraying ether. Maybe that will eventually repair it

Did I detect a slight note of sarcasm in your post? Before I got my Yanmar YM2310 I knew almost nothing about diesel engines. I had heard that ether can blow the tips off of the injectors from one person but have never heard it from anybody else. After my YM2310 purchase I learned on this site to NEVER use ether on this tractor because it could break the rings. Even though my tractor starts easily in weather above 45 degrees I might have been tempted to use ether in colder weather if I had not read here to not use it. I think it's too bad the OP has been using so much ether unless the engine is made to be able to use ether. I hope the OP didn't get bad advice from someone about ether use. In any case you made your point. But it seems to me that maybe you were a little harsh. I think the OP is desperate and I wish I could help.
Eric

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Something else, relatively easy to check, is if that ether bent any push rods. Last old tractor I handled had been ethered. Had 8 push rods. 6 we're bent 90° from ether. When they are bent that far, they don't make a tapping noise when it runs. I do have ether here on hand, but I use it to seat tires on rims. I don't use it on diesel engines.

 

[Williy]

Would the glow plugs have anything to do with this
problem?? The intake heater died on my o3 cummons
and it starts right up just turn the key and its running


willy

 

[BCinVA]

Spent my career working in the Heavy Truck manufacturing business. I worked for a long time in a factory that built class 8 trucks. Back in the day before the intense vertical integration, we installed several brands of engines in the trucks. Detroit Diesel, Catapillar, Cummins etc. One of the factory options in those days was ether injection. It was basically a system that provided a canister of ether mounted on the truck, and able to be injected with a switch from the cab to aid in cold starts. It was obviously more popular with fleets based in the more Northern cold climates. Not advocating ether by any means, just thought some might find this interesting.

 

[hosspuller]

Sounds like your compression is too low. I say... Get it started on ether to get your crop sprayed. And saved.. You won't hurt it anymore, other than a catastrophic breakdown. Plan on getting the engine overhauled ASAP. The starting progression you described fits a failing engine ...

 

[square1]

Starting with ether is a factory installed feature on many older diesels. Diesels with glow plugs should never have ether used as a general rule.
Diesel fuel is inherently dirtier than gasoline directly from the refinery. Don't assume that fuel filter changed a couple weeks ago is still clean.