Oil & Fuel Adding Hydraulic filter to KAMA 454

[Paddy]

All,

I statrted a new thread regarding adding a Hydraulic filter system to a KAMA 454 with a FEL. It comes standard with a strainer on the suction line and it's bolted to the sump box under the seat. Rear remotes return plumb into this.

I have been very happy with My KAMA and Chip at Artrack for his great service. I'm at 260 hrs and changing out the fuilds a bit early. Had to store her outside for a year as the garage was being built.

If I understand the hydro system corectly;

Pump delivers to rear remotes
Has Return to suction strainer noted above
Has power beyond to quick disconnect, then to FEL

FEL , as noted receives from Power beyond from Rear remotes
Power beyond to 3PH
Has return to Sump under seat

3PH just dumps back in to sump once in side.

So, now regarding a place to put a filter. After looking around a bit, generally it's best to "filter" on the return side and "strain" on the suction. Don't want the pump to cavitate trying to suck through a dirty filter. A return filter that get's it all, is not posable because it's in the sump under the seat via the last valve, the 3PH. By that I mean, I don't want to pull the sump casting top where the seat is mounted to change the filter. If it's even posable with out 3RRl's skill set!

So, my conclussion is

1) I can install a filter on the suction line at a very easy joint just before the pump where a rubber section of tube connects the two hard lines. Issues can be; a) a cloged filter will have the pump cavitate, b) this joint is "below" the pump meaning you have to prime the pump with each filter change. c) bit close to the ground and some risk of filter being wiped by small trees. I do not bush hog so not likely.

2) place the filter on the return line from the FEL. This would mean the Hydro oil only gets filted when FEL is being used. But if strainer is still in place hydro oil is still getting some min protection?

I do not use the rear remotes at all, never. I'm either grading the road with 3PH or moving dirt with FEL

I bought a 25 micron filter housing with 3/4' threads for inlet and out. I can take it back and get the 1" for the 1" suction side. or keep it and put it on the FEL return.

Am I on the right track?

Patrick T

 

[Diamondpilot]

I was in the same boat as you on my Jinma 284. What I did was add a filter on the return side going to the sump. The way I am plumbed it filters the FEL, Steering, and my custom add on rear remotes. It does not filter the 3 point.

My theory is it will get all the fluid at some point. I am filtering 75% of the fluid.

Chris

 

[Rich Waugh]

I'm confused by your description of your hydraulic plumbing. Okay, the intake strainer in the sump is normal. Where is this "power beyond" that comes from the rear remotes? A power beyond is a port/function of a control valve, not of a remote coupling.

These tractors use an "open center system"; that is, the fluid is flowing from the pump to the sump all the time. Usually, the pump first delivers to the FEL and from there to the TPH and then to the sump, often with a connection near the TPH for rear remote(s). This is typical for a system with two pumps, one pump being a dedicated pump for the power steering. With a single-pump system, such as the 200-series Jinmas, the pump first delivers the fluid to a priority valve that prioritizes flow to the steering motor and then diverts the remaining flow to the FEL and so on to the TPH and then sump.

A power beyond port in an FEL control valve allows you to take an additional line from it to power another control valve, (such as for a grapple or hydraulic top and tilt) from which the fluid then returns to the sump. If PB is not being used, that port is internally routed to the return line. In either event, fluid that passes through the FEL control valve returns to the sump through the return line. As noted, that line may supply the TPH before going to the sump.

If you do as Chrjs has done and put a filter in the FEL return line, you will filter all your hydraulic fluid. At some point, all the fluid flows through the FEL control valve, so it all gets filtered. Since the return line is under pressure, a fine filter such as a 10 micron can be used, ensuring full filtration. Suction lines are at negative pressure so you can't use fine filtration on them - unless you use a huge filter capable of ten or twenty times the actual flow rate and have a suction gauge on it so you can tell when it is becoming restricted and must be replaced. A pressure-side filter, on the other hand, generally has a relief valve incorporated into the housing and if the filter becomes too restricted the excess flow will simply bypass the filter media and return to the sump.

I've probably left several things out, but that should get you on the right track, I think.

 

[Paddy]

rich,

I guess the KAMA is set up different. Excluding lines on a valve set dedicated to cyclinder action, each has three lines. Pressure in, Power beyond and a return for the cyclinders in use. Mine just starts at the Rear remotes because it is close to the pump. from there the power beyond hose goes under the tractor to the FEL. If I remove the FEL I hook the power beyond from the rear remotes direct to the 3PH, bypassing the FEL.

I agree, putting on the FEL return will filter when using FEL.

Thanks all for helping me figure it all out.

Patrick T

 

[greg_g]

Rich is rightly confused Patrick. There are too many errors in your description of the KM454 hydraulics. You need to be assured of your own configuration before you attempt to modify it. Start with the fact that the strainer (left side of the sump) is on the supply side. And when you see 3 lines on a tractor control valve, odds are the 3rd one is the center bypass. Pretty sure you're also incorrectly applying the Power Beyond descriptor too. But since our KM454s were not identical, I'd have to see your tractor to conclude how - or even if - the loader and rear remotes are integrated. Assuming the hydraulics have been unchanged since new, you should consult the dealer for advice. I assume that's Chip.

Here's my point (again). You already have an suction strainer in that external housing I pointed out. If you pretend it's not there (in favor of add-on filtration) you'll end up starving the pump once the thing clogs up. Part of the regular maintenance on your KM454 is to clean the magnet inside that housing, and replace the brass mesh as required. The 80x80 mesh by the way, approximates a 170 micron supply side filter.

//greg//

 

[Paddy]

Greg,yes, the strainer is on suction side.

I may have the terminolgy wrong. But path is as described. Pump out put is to rear remotes. from there a line goes to the strainner and one to the FEL. I can assume the one to the strainer is a return and the one to the FEL is power beyond. from the FEL, one line goes to the 3PH and the other to the drain plug that has been replaced on the sump. again, I assume the line going from the FEL to the 3PH is called power beyond and the one going to the sump is a return. In any case, both the Rear remotes and the FEL have three lines.;

1) coming from pump or previous valve, I call power
2) going to next valve, I call power beyond
3) going to sump under seat/strainer, I call return

What are the correct terms for the above lines?

Your previous KAMA had a very differnt set up. Your pump was located just above the PTO, and you did not have a FEL. can't recall if you had rear remotes or not. My system is daisy chained; RR to FEL to 3PH, each draining back to the sump

 

[Brad_Blazer]

I understood what you meant.
I put a 10um filter on the return line with a quick connect for the return from the backhoe attachment which I run as a power beyond valve. The oil only gets filtered when I run the loader or backhoe.

I have not done this but it would be possible to route the return from the factory rear remotes to this filter and cap the hose barb going into the suction strainer. In your case I guess that wouldn't matter since you don't use your remotes.

You can add a cartridge style suction strainer like you describe, just make sure it's listed as a suction strainer. A finer filter will probably cause cavitation problems. There are high dollar high pressure filters but I'm not THAT worried about it.

 

[greg_g]

What are the correct terms for the above lines?

1) supply
2) bypass
3) return
And you're still contradicting yourself. Supply/suction is where fluid is drawn from the sump, and goes toward the pump. Yet you still describe fluid flowing TO the strainer. You can't have it both ways.

Not sure because of your terminology, but it sounds like the hose you want to cut is actually the suction bypass. if true, installing your project there would be completely redundant. And if you use a 25mm canister, you'll likely end up starving the pump. Like I said, the existing suction strainer is roughly the equivalent of 170 microns.

My KM454 had no loader, but the location of the pump is immaterial. The only thing different is the physical routing of the pipes. The flow pattern is otherwise similar. Given the number of times you use the words "I assume", my advice remains that you contact Chip.

//greg//

 

[Rich Waugh]

I'm with Greg on this one, Patrick. You don't seem to really have a complete grasp of hydraulic system parameters and practices and you should rely on expert assistance from your dealer, in this case Chip Uren. He's a very knowledgeable man who will get you set up correctly.

This issue of more than just a matter of terminology - it is a matter of technical best practices that need to be followed. It took me a good long time (2 years) to get my head around all the things I needed to know in order to have a working understanding of hydraulics, so I do sympathize with your problems. Hydraulics, if messed with inappropriately, can be highly dangerous to both you and your equipment. Fatal, even.

I strongly suggest you take a series of detailed photos of your tractor's entire hydraulic system, then send them to Chip to get his guidance on just which modifications are reasonable and appropriate and how to do them.

 

[Paddy]

Greg,

My rear remotes return does not go the the sump under the seat. There is a 1/2" port on top of the strainer tube. The 3PH return is in the tank under the seat. And the FEL return goes to what was once the drain plug.