Adios Caterpillar in OTR

   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR #11  
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ACERT Technology represents a series of evolutionary and incremental improvements developed by Caterpillar. For example:

* The fuel system allows for multiple injections each combustion cycle. Small amounts of fuel are injected at precise times to achieve the combined goals of fuel economy and lower emissions.
* An advanced air system provides more cool air in the combustion chamber. A wastegate turbocharger provides excellent low-end response. In addition, crossflow cylinder heads provide a direct path of air to the engine.

Caterpillar engineers worked with approximately 125 variables to find the optimum balance. There are more than 10 million possible combustion combinations. Those engineers were challenged by the highly intertwined relationship of (1) reduced emissions, (2) engine performance, (3) fuel efficiency and (4) engine durability. Those are not necessarily complimentary objectives. Improving emissions, for example, can have an adverse effect on fuel efficiency. Their overriding goal is no different than the goal Caterpillar has had since its inception—to provide customers with the lowest owning and operating costs, and the lowest cost per unit of material moved.
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So this whole ACERT technology is nothing more than an ordinary common rail injection system with multiple injections ?

From Wikipedia:
"Common rail engines have been used in marine and locomotive applications for some time. The Cooper-Bessemer GN-8 (circa 1942) is an example of a hydraulically operated common rail diesel engine, also known as a modified common rail."

and:

"The common rail system prototype was developed in the late 1960s by Robert Huber of Switzerland. After that, the technology was further developed by Dr. Marco Ganser at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, later of Ganser-Hydromag AG (est.1995) in Oberägeri. In the mid-1990s, Dr. Shohei Itoh and Masahiko Miyaki, of the Denso Corporation, a Japanese automotive parts manufacturer, developed the common rail fuel system for heavy duty vehicles and turned it into practical use on their ECD-U2 common-rail system, which was mounted on the Hino Rising Ranger truck and sold for general use in 1995."



Builder said:
With the chips down in the middle of a war, I'll take my old Yankee diesels over the euro diesels 24/7. ;)

Because of this general American mindset, these trucks come with Cummins engines and an "american truck corporation" badge on your side of the pond... Under the flag of Terex, they couldnt get any army orders in America so Terex sold the company to private investors. They are popular in the Middle East, where it can be 40°C plus during the day, and -5° during the night.
In the 1st gulf war, the US army also used the Tatra's of the Saudi's to cross the deserts ;)

The amount of genuine "Yankee Diesels" are near extinction: Detroit is ditching old American designs and gets building Mercedes-Benz truck engines from this year on (which are sold WITH MB transmissions from the Brazil MB plant) Navistar ? is building a MAN clone, and the "new" Paccar MX motor started its life in the mid 90's on a test bench about 150 km from where i live, in the DAF truck plant in Eindhoven, the Netherlands. Oh, and Volvo isnt a North American brand actually, main parts are designed in sweden :D
Cummins is still building SOME Yankee Diesels, but the smaller ones, 4.5 and 6.75 liter engines, are a joint development with Iveco of Italy.



Sorry for this rude awakening, but as much as we Europeans rely on fuel from American oil companies, you guys depend more and more on us Europeans for engine technology, because many cant keep up the pace... :p
 
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   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Ouch!!

So are you saying "Tatras" won the war ;) instead of American blood & those Abrahms tanks? LOL

Why don't you just come out and tell us we Americans suck at building diesels, even though we freed you from the Nazis about 60 years back with that old Yankee diesel technology?:D

Just havin a little fun at your expense.

There's no "rude awakening". I know European diesels are real good, especially now that America has screwed herself with higher diesel prices and the need for greater efficiency.
Navistar & Cummins are still going quite strong. CAT is still the world leader in off-road diesels, but we are losing ground.
 
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   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR #13  
Builder said:
Ouch!!

Why don't you just come out and tell us we Americans suck at building diesels, even though we freed you from the Nazis about 60 years back with that old Yankee diesel technology?:D

Mornin Builder,
:D :D :D
 
   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR #14  
Builder said:
So are you saying "Tatras" won the war ;) instead of American blood & those Abrahms tanks? LOL

...No i wasnt... i just said that, when it was life or death, the US army put away their loyalty for yank tech, and use whatever is best to do that job...

Builder said:
Why don't you just come out and tell us we Americans suck at building diesels, even though we freed you from the Nazis about 60 years back with that old Yankee diesel technology?:D

In the 2nd world war, the Yanks didnt use Diesels yet. Caterpillar did however develop a replacement Diesel for the tanks, that also needed a drivetrain upgrade because the Diesels put out so much more torque.
The army tactically voted against them, because it would be too much of a logistic challenge to supply the army, even in the same batalion, with 2 different fuels.

Builder said:
Just havin a little fun at your expense.

I cant blame you... for i did the same ;) How lovely it is to tease the Yanks by telling them they are outrun by a truck from a former Soviet controlled country.... Because i didnt get heavier respond to that, i believe it is the generally higher level of education of the contributors of this site, OR that the cold war sentiments have finally eroded from American pride.

Builder said:
There's no "rude awakening". I know European diesels are real good, especially now that America has screwed herself with higher diesel prices and the need for greater efficiency.

I suppose its the discussion of whether the chicken or the egg as first: Many Europeans blame Americans for the high fuel prices, because Americans insist on driving highly inefficient gas guzzling pick-up trucks, where Europeans use Vans with highly efficient, 90 to 140 hp 2 liter diesels to drive to the job, which include more cargo space and about 1000kg less empty weight...
The Americans begin to see that, as the Mercedes Sprinter is now also sold as Dodge Sprinter in the USA...
The fuel consumption of the American army, each day, is as high as the TOTAL fuel consumption of the country of Sweden....

Builder said:
Navistar & Cummins are still going quite strong. CAT is still the world leader in off-road diesels, but we are losing ground.

I dont know about Navistar for we dont get them in Europe. All i know is that they took on a strategic alliance with MAN for certain engine types...

About CAT, most engines used around here are of the smaller, under 200hp clas, which are built and designed in the former Perkins factory in England.
 
   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR #15  
I don't blame them. I think they can see the writing on the wall. You think transportation costs are expensive now, just wait. I don't think that the new engines that can meet those tier regs are going to be as powerfull as the older engines. They are castrating the once mighty diesel engine to make what are perhaps only marginal gains in emissions. This means that they will probably use more fuel per pound/Mile of cargo transported. They cost a fortune to develop, a larger fortune to certify and produce, as well as being far more complex which ultimately means more failures. I may be completely wrong about this, but what they are doing will not do anything but lower power output based on how I understand things to work.

I think the EPA is shooting us in the foot for what gain? The greenies have wanted to do away with the nasty diesel engine for decades, and they are slowly making that happen. Of course not fully realizing the impact This is going to have on everyone considering nearly everything we use in our current lifestyle in this country has at some time been transported by a truck with a diesel engine in it. Why a diesel engine? Well the market place settled that issue a long time ago, because of efficiency. The new engines will be cleaner, but I don't think they will be as efficient. How can burning more fuel to accomplish the same ammount of work be better for the environment? The answer to this escapes me...
 
   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR #16  
RonMar said:
They cost a fortune to develop, a larger fortune to certify and produce, as well as being far more complex which ultimately means more failures. I may be completely wrong about this, but what they are doing will not do anything but lower power output based on how I understand things to work.

In my 1996 Volvo 850 2.5 TDI is a Volkswagen engine, used in VW's commercial vehicles: the Transporter Van, and the larger truck/van LT35 and LT46, with GVW of 2.5, 3.5 and 4.6 ton. I love it, also because of the raw, but somehow civilised 5 cylinder sound ;) Mine has an electronic controlled throttle, with mechanical "pumpe duse" unit injectors.

When i drove the brand new VW Crafter 50, 164 hp 5 ton pickup truck of a customer of us, which has essentially the same engine, just with common rail, it was like a 1991 Accolade racing game: at every 500 rpm increase, the engine makes a different sound, because the injection regime is changed over its RPM band.
From other customers we hear that this engine is extremely thirsty, and it has absolutely no torque at low RPM, because the engine would otherwise bark out too much oxides when the turbo isnt working yet.

When i buy my next car, i'm not sure if i want Volvo's own D5 diesel: its a more refined engine than the TDI which VW currently only offers in its commercial vehicles, but it has even more electronics !!!

On the other hand: The Crafter's twin brother, the Mercedes Sprinter (both are built at Mercedes, just VW uses their own engines and sheetmetal) has been a big improvement over the last Sprinter, with the old inline 5, 3 liter engine. The new CDI V6 engine (also 3 liter) puts out more torque, more hp, just has a smoother powerband, and uses about the same amount of fuel.

I dont like the amount of electronics either, and i'm thinking of buying an old Volvo 240 (rear wheel drive = more fun anyways) and putting in a Zetor tractor engine with mechanical inline fuel pump. This would provide 150 hp and over 520 Nm of torque, yet without electronics. When the car is registered 25 or more years ago, i dont have to pay road tax anymore, and when i just run it through a conversion approval, i dont have to re-register it and it has to comply to the emission standards of the date of first approval (which were non-existing at that time....)


I definately agree that all this emission garbage is just a result of weird ways how governmental institutions have to implement the election promises of politicians. Burning more fuel to do less work, cannot be beneficial to our environment. period.
When engine manufacturers were free to seek the most fuel efficient engines without some stupid law prescribtion, the market would simply outcompete any inefficient gas guzzlers. With the new emission standards each year, all that happens is that potentially good ideas die on the test bench.

Our environment is best helped with a free market, where the best (most fuel efficient) will win...
 
   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR #17  
Renze said:
When engine manufacturers were free to seek the most fuel efficient engines without some stupid law prescribtion, the market would simply outcompete any inefficient gas guzzlers. With the new emission standards each year, all that happens is that potentially good ideas die on the test bench.

Good Evenin Renze,
Hope you know we were kidding you before ! ;)

I dont have alot of real life experiences driving over in europe, but my wife and another couple spent 2 weeks in Ireland back in 06. We rented a 6 person diesel van with enough room for all our luggage. I have never driven such a fuel efficient vehicle in all my life !!! We toured a 1/4 of the country and clocked up Km after Km and the fuel needle just didnt move ! :confused: For the life of me I cant remember what the van was but Im sure I can find out !

We were totally astounded at how far we could go on a tank full of fuel ! :) Im thinking we had 1200 km on the odometer before we even thought about fueling up and Im sure we could have gone furtjher ! :)
 
   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR #19  
Did anyone read the entire press release? It offers some good information like the creation of a CAT branded severe duty truck

Here is a segment on the engine collaboration.

"Engine Technology

Under the alliance, Caterpillar and Navistar plan to cooperate on engine development, incorporating "best in class" technologies from both companies. Caterpillar and Navistar intend to work together on development of mid-range engines for diesel applications, such as school buses and utility trucks. This engine development would support each company's stated path not to utilize urea-based Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) technology.

"There are many opportunities for technology sharing and development that would result in the ability to better meet the worldwide demand for diesel engines in both on and off-highway applications," said Jack Allen, President, Navistar Engine Group.

"In the past 15 years, Cat has become significantly less dependent on the sale of on-highway truck engines in the total contribution of our global engine profitability," said Oberhelman. "Our global power systems business has grown significantlyæ“] fact we supply approximately 400,000 diesel engines annually outside of the on-highway truck market. We intend to remain the world leader in clean diesel engines, and this collaboration is a key enabler."

Caterpillar: About Cat>News & Events>Press Releases
 
   / Adios Caterpillar in OTR
  • Thread Starter
#20  
They have been in talks with Navistar for a while. There would be a "CAT" truck, built mostly by IH.

The new CAT transmissions look like they're going to give Allison a run for their money, too.
 

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