Advantages of a gear/synchro over HST?

[Heywood Jannockitov]

A knee surgery later and some of you may join the HST crowd too.

Hmmm... An HST requires manipulating foot pedals. I can operate my JD 5425 24x24 sp with power reverser without ever using my feet. You can't get any easier on the knees than that!

 

[daveyb45]

Each has thier +/-. Running a snowblower works better on a hydro,,, breaking ground seems better with the gear. Running a hydro is easier when you have a broken left leg, I have been layed up twice, both left leg injuries, currently left ankle. Good thing I have a hydro. I can also park the hydro in tighter spots and if you seen my garage you would know what I mean. I do hate changing more fluid and filters, higher maintenance cost. Best just to have one of each.

 

[Kioti4me]

I have a CK35 HST. One thing I have discovered is you don't have the ease of using the right or left brake to assist with steering when you need it. You must keep your foot on the HST pedal at all times to keep the HST tractor moving forward. It is really awkward to those of us that got used to using the breaks to steer those old two wheel drive farm tractors. One disadvatage of HST. Small issue I love my Kioti.

 

[BTI]

Geardrive= Clutch-Synchro's-Shift forks-Gears
Hydro= 1-Hydro unit

Expense of repair if not doing it yourself- Pretty much equal, maybe a little more for the hydro.

A hydro only needs split in one place.
Geardrive needs split 2 places, if anything other than just a clutch needs done. Takes more shop hours

They are both much more sensitive to dirty oil than people realize.
I've seen the inside of low hour geardrives have worn shift forks.
I've seen the inside of high hour geadrives NOT have worn shift forks.
The low hour tractor the oil was changed but they used the wrong type (RO I believe) AND they overheated it (old DK45) they were running a woodsplitter and tied the remote handle on, disconnected the splitter and forgot about it.
The oil was charcoal colored and smelled like it too.

If you replace only the "needed" parts in a gear trans, you still have some old parts.
You replace the hydro unit, the complete unit is new.
If you replace only the parts needed, you'll be cheaper on the hydro.

Hydro's aren't automatic transmissions, they don't have clutch packs that are under a constant state of "slip".

Hey and I'm a geardrive guy, at least I was, until I drove the DK40SE Hydro.
SWEEEEEEEEEEEET machine.
But I wounldn't turn down a geardrive.

So many choices!!
No wrong choice.

BTI

 

[IslandTractor]

Hey and I'm a geardrive guy, at least I was, until I drove the DK40SE Hydro.
SWEEEEEEEEEEEET machine.

Now that is preaching to the choir!!!

And, thanks for the experienced dealer's perspective on this question.

 

[kenstrac]

Varying Drawbar Power and Fuel Consumption (Drawbar Performance)
For these drawbar tests, the manufacturer selects a gear ratio, and the drawbar performance and fuel consumption of the tractor is evaluated at various drawbar loads. Two tests are made at 50 percent of maximum available power, one with the tractor at rated engine speed and the other with the tractor in a higher gear ratio and throttled back to the same ground speed. This comparison shows that for partial load operations, the tractor can be operated more efficiently at reduced throttle settings. For example, using Test No. 1255, the tractor has a fuel efficiency of 10.02 hp-hrs/gal at 50 percent load and rated engine speed. At reduced throttle, the tractor has an efficiency of 13.39 hp-hrs/gal at the same load and ground speed.

Another interesting comparison can be made using the maximum available drawbar hp at 100 percent load and the maximum PTO hp. A ratio of the drawbar hp to the maximum PTO hp is an indicator of the efficiency of the drive train of the tractor. Consider Test Nos. 1255 and 1257 for an IH 986 diesel with 16-speed transmission and IH hydrostatic diesel 186. These tractors have identical engines, producing approximately 105 PTO hp. However, the standard transmission 986 produces 90 drawbar hp, while the hydrodrive produces 80 drawbar hp.

The comparison of drive train efficiencies is as follows. IH 986: 90/105 = 86 percent; IH 186 hydro: 80/105 = 76 percent. The tractor with the standard transmission has less loss in the drive train and is able to transmit more power to the drawbar. The overall fuel efficiency with the standard transmission is obviously better. In this case, the potential buyer would have to decide whether the advantages of the hydrostatic transmission were worth the increase in fuel consumption and efficiency.

This test was done by the University of Nebraska.

Other equipment I have dealt with the power loss to the rear wheels could be as high as 25%

 

[greenmule]

So now a hst is cheaper to repair than putting new clutch disks on,do I have that right? Man,just yesterday it was the other way around,things sure change fast.

 

[kthompson]

I have a CK35 HST. One thing I have discovered is you don't have the ease of using the right or left brake to assist with steering when you need it. You must keep your foot on the HST pedal at all times to keep the HST tractor moving forward. It is really awkward to those of us that got used to using the breaks to steer those old two wheel drive farm tractors. One disadvatage of HST. Small issue I love my Kioti.

I have both manual and HST. Admit HST takes getting use to on using brakes but if you take the manual transmission attitude you can do it just as well. Within 1 or 2 % points. I think you will find you have a lock to keep your HST pedal where you want to lock it thus keeping the ground speed you desire. That frees up your right foot to operate the brakes for turning at the end of a row for instance. Then there are those who will say but it will still be running at the same groudn speed, yep so how do you slow down your manual for the turn? Just throttle down or do you drop a gear or more? If so by the time you drop that gear down and then back up how much wear has your system taken the HST did not? Also how much longer does it take? You also have to use brakes a lot on manuals that on HST is never required.

 

[slowzuki]

Just a clutch is cheap. If you need to replace half the sychros, a few bearings and lets say a scored counter shaft, the parts and labour add up really fast to the price of a drop in hydro unit.

I know you can replace parts of a hydro unit too but once metal flys around in one they are usually trouble forever after.

 

[Reg]

We've DONE THIS more than once.
Search for other threads on this.

My position is that for any fixed amount of money, ($xyK) the gear tractor will typically have more horse power, be heavier and able to handle the next size up implements/attachments.
{Against that, the upsized attachments/implements cost more - though you don't HAVE to get the bigger ones, but at least you CAN}

Conversely the hydro puts you on a smaller tractor; less power, lighter, etc.
Not saying this is always the step between cat 1 and cat 2, although for some makes/models it might be.