Advice needed on poorly performing section of Hay field.

[jeff9366]

Good neighbors are priceless.

As you are seeking long term improvement, now would be a good time to have a soil test. You can amend appropriately for hay, then drag. Getting micro nutrients right can make a big difference over several seasons.

 

[tmac196]

Good neighbors are priceless.

As you are seeking long term improvement, now would be a good time to have a soil test. You can amend appropriately for hay, then drag. Getting micro nutrients right can make a big difference over several seasons.

Jeff - Please read post #1 of this thread. It addresses soil testing and amendments which were made in October. Video #2 (above) was made during the ameding process.

 

[Egon]

Do an experiment. Use different amendment plans on potted soil samples, apply seed and see how they grow?

 

[Jerry/MT]

Here is a satellite image which may help explain the situation better. This satellite image was obtained in the fall of 2012. It was approximately 3 months after we had taken possession of the property and it shows the extent of the manure and pine shavings spread on the segments of the field in question probably during the spring of the year that we took possession of the property. To the south of the swale is the well performing segment of the hayfield. To the north and to the north east of the swale are the segments to which I am referring:
View attachment 387231

Gary Fowler- I don't want to overemphasize the spoils. They merely represent a small portion of the field near the creek and then a spoils that are present have been there for approximately 18 years which is the last time the creek was actually cleaned out. According to the previous owner, the spoils were left at the edge of the creek and not spread back onto the field.

Deerherd- your comments are very helpful. I was thinking about spreading manure on the field this winter and then discing it in uring the spring. That certainly would only make my phosphorus levels higher. I don't understand enough about phosphorus and cation chemistry, but I can certainly take this up with the chemist at the lab that performed my soil testing.

Jeff9366- the satellite image shows just how much more application of manure and pine shavings are present in the poorly performing areas of the field. The soil testing was at the root level and the pH was 6.2. Something caused this segment of the field to be more acidic than the rest of the field (pH of 6.9). To my knowledge, pine shavings had been spread on this segment of the field intermittently for several years. Thank you for the tip, I will check with my agricultural extension agent about chisel plow availability, but somehow I suspect this is not going to be the case in our county. I was unable to rent a seed drill from the extension office 2 years ago at that time, the agent told me that they had no implements available and that, "We haven't done that for years". I can easily dig an inspection hole with a post hole digger and will do so and let you know what I find.

From the aerial view, it looks like you have two different soil types. Did you visit NRCS and get a soil map of your place or go to their Web Soil Survey sight to look at a soil map? You're in Michigan so glacial action jumbled up the soils there so it's possible that this is part of your problem. The low pH is probably due to spreading shavings but that's usually a temporary issue as the shavings break down unless they form a thick mat.. From the plowing/disking pictures you appear to have good loamy soil. Are all the grasses the same variety? If so what are they? Is it possible that there is something like annual bluegrass or some such species in the bad areas?
You soil tested and your pH was low so they must have recommended lime. At what rate? Did you apply it at the recommended rate?
I would ask your local NRCS office for help

 

[tmac196]

Jerry/MT-

Here is some more information. Soil sample grid:



Soil test report:



Lime application recommendations (completed in October 2014):



Potash application recommendations (completed in October 2014):



I am reseeding a mix of alfalfa, Orchard grass, Timothy and festulolium grass for the future.

What was there before? A cornucopia of grasses, weeds a few scant alfalfa and clover plants.

 

[JimRB]

What is the elevation change on the property? How much lower is the drainage ditch from problem field?

Some interesting to me articles on alfalfa production. One from MSU.

Common Mistakes in Growing Alfalfa
Alfalfa Response to Low and High pH Levels | From Field to Field
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/uploads/234/43269/Alfalfa_seeding_and_fertilization_recommendations.pdf

 

[tmac196]

What is the elevation change on the property? How much lower is the drainage ditch from problem field?

Some interesting to me articles on alfalfa production. One from MSU.

Common Mistakes in Growing Alfalfa
Alfalfa Response to Low and High pH Levels | From Field to Field
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/uploads/234/43269/Alfalfa_seeding_and_fertilization_recommendations.pdf

JimRB-

The elevation change across the field is approx. 2-3 feet. The swale is 1.5 feet-2 feet lower than the surrounding field. The creek which borders the northern edge of the field (a tributary to Lake Erie, 7 miles due east) is approx. 6-8 feet lower than the field and 4-6 feet lower than the swale.

tmac

 

[HybridVigor]

I think you'll need to get those pHs up to make any real difference in fertility in the bad spots. Too much of the cation exchange capacity is being occupied by H ions, and unfortunately those bad sections have the lowest organic matter and subsequently the lowest cation exchange capacity. (Think of CEC as the bucket that holds nutrients. You want a bigger bucket as well as the right stuff in the bucket). Even if total levels of nutrients are good, your bucket in those areas is very small, exacerbating any nutrient imbalance caused by low pH. 6.2 isn't very low, but it's made worse by low OM and CEC. Personally, I feel manure is your friend here because it will help add OM which you desperately need. Avoid the pine shavings and anything with a high carbon to nitrogen ration. The small bucket means you won't have much N to supply to the crop and you don't want it tied up breaking down wood.

If you used regular limestone it could take three years to get the full lime activity. Hydrated lime works much quicker but costs more money. I didn't actually see the lime requirements on that soil test. Because legumes are very pH sensitive you may want to stick to hardy grasses at first.

For what it's worth I do not believe tillage in of itself will help anything. In my opinion over tillage does nothing but cause excess erosion and depleted organic matter contents. That said it does have a place if it's what you need to do to get a new stand of forages established. I also suspect the drainage may not be as good as the sandy soils would leave us to believe. I'm curious what the depth of the water table is in the bad areas. If saturation is an issue it won't be fixed without tile. (Or much better soil aggregation with higher OM and soil health, which in turn is very hard to get without better drainage to begin with.)

It may take some time but with the love you're giving it will come around.

 

[Soggy Bottom Outdoors]

I tend to agree with Hybrid, there may be a hidden drainage issue. Rarely have I seen OM (manure) to cause fertility problems. But I have seen saw dust/pine shavings get things out of balance till they decompose completely. A ph of 6.2 is a bit low but not terrible, yet raise it you can. I don't think tillage will help anything. Focus on getting the ph to 6.5 or better, then the get the big three in line (N-P-K). Don't forget the micros, but you may not see much yield advantage without the others being right. Check and recheck the drainage. Is there a hardplan under the field? Can you subsoil the field? Can you, in the short term, raise a more forgiving hay crop?

 

[tmac196]

I tend to agree with Hybrid, there may be a hidden drainage issue. Rarely have I seen OM (manure) to cause fertility problems. But I have seen saw dust/pine shavings get things out of balance till they decompose completely. A ph of 6.2 is a bit low but not terrible, yet raise it you can. I don't think tillage will help anything. Focus on getting the ph to 6.5 or better, then the get the big three in line (N-P-K). Don't forget the micros, but you may not see much yield advantage without the others being right. Check and recheck the drainage. Is there a hardplan under the field? Can you subsoil the field? Can you, in the short term, raise a more forgiving hay crop?

Soggy- Hard to believe that there is a drainage problem in heavy yellow sand along a creek, but once the snow melts, I can dig a post hole or two and see. There is no hard pan anywhere else on the property (and, trust me, I have dug plenty of holes-we have 8600 linear feet of wooden horse fencing).

Hybrid- I guess I should repeat the soil testing later this year and see what the 2014 amendments did for the soil.