Advice on backhoe

[Richard]

3 days ago, I acquired an 1,800 hour JCB backhoe/loader. I have been told that when using the hoe (on tractors), you should extend the stabilizers ALL the way down and lift rear tires off ground, I have read that you should extend stabilizers and lift until tires have MOST weight off them, but still touching to help side/side (?) or just to maybe hold total weight(I'm unsure) either way...

The question is from the presumption of working on a flat surface. Any thoughts, and why's would be appreciated.

 

[MChalkley]

The approach generally taught by knowledgeable instructors is to lock the brakes, and achieve the somewhat delicate balance of getting most of the weight on the stabilizers and bucket without raising the tires off the ground. This gives you the most stability, the most resistance to sliding, and most importantly, is vastly safer, because it reduces the chance of tipping should the soil give way under one of the stabilizers.

As one safety instructor I heard said "The surest way to tell a rookie TLB operator is to look for the guy with the bucket and stabilizers fully down, as though he's trying to lauch the thing." However, he's incorrect, in my opinion. There are lots of very experienced operators that haven't learned this, either. So, it's more likely a way of spotting an uneducated operator, not an inexperienced one. After all, the only thing experience alone accomplishes, before the accident we call "education" if we survive it, is creating a habit. And it's frequently a bad habit.

MarkC

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I'd agree with Mark on the stabilizers except that before you giggle at someone using their backhoe on stilts, considering them a total goof, you have to look at what they are doing. Sometimes, due to circumstances you have to have the rear of the tractor way off the ground if you are trying to dig very close to the tractor and cannot due to obstacles reposition it.

Speaking of backhoe use, I recently played on a mid size Kubota, I think it was a L3010 or it's predecessor. It had a std Kubota backhoe which is equivalent to the one on my Ford NH. What I've discovered is there's an even better use for filling your tires. The tractor was not thrown around during use (well at least jiggled) anywhere near as much as my Ford or my Kubota. Backhoes are neat when they are powerful but you pay the price as the power goes up on a lighter tractor by loss of effective, comfortable use due to the tractor moving before the dirt does. I like the lighter weight for towing but may go the filled tire route afterall.
I've still to get to the point on the L35 where I can dig and not have the weight of the tractor always be lifting off the outriggers. Nice backhoe, still "dumb" operator used to slower backhoe!

Dig on!

del

 

[Richard]

Thanks for the input guys. I currently have just cranked it up on the stilts...not only AM I uneducated, I am also in-experienced, /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I called the dealer and THEY suggested full extension. I was working on a pine tree stump and while pulling, the whole machine pivoted on the stabilizers such that the bucke/front wheels all came up maybe 6 to 12 inches, though it felt like 12 feet. The ONLY thing touching terra firma was the stabilizers and hoe bucket. That was REAL CLOSE to the time when I recalled some of the conversations on this issue and decided to investigate it further.

Any merrit on filling the front tires with methanol/water? It seems awfully light (or is the loader just THAT strong?)They currently are air only but do have tubes in them.

 

[MarkV]

Richard,

I remember the first time the backhoe had my tractor dancing. Kind of makes you wonder what the heck you were thinking when you bought this thing. AS Mark said I try to take the wieght off the tractor and still leave the machine in contact with the ground. On uneven ground you do break this rule at times to dig level.

Digging stumps is one of the hardest things you will do with the hoe. You need to dig well out from the stump to cut all the roots before it will break loose. You might want to spend a few hours digging somewhere else until you get a feel for things. Before you know it you will be using the backhoe to move the tractor around. (on purpose)

I found that a tooth bar on the loader made a huge change in how much the TLB would move around. Might want to look into one.

 

[Richard]

Interesting that you mention the tooth bar, as I currently have NO protection on the bucket at all. It came without anything. I'm intending on using this primarily to scrape up brush piles so they can be burned. I spoke with the dealer who would presumably be happy to sell me either and he suggested with that(pushing brush) being the greater than 50% use of the machine, I would probably be better off with the regular cutting bar. Would that sound reasonable? I was kind of thinking that the teeth could help "lift" a pile using their "finger" action sometimes (?).

All I know is I DON'T know much and I'm just currently trying to take it slow and safe, no heroics. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[gerard]

Get a bolt on toothbar and have the best of both worlds!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Again, the farther the legs are down, the less stability you have as the legs start to come together. If someone was going to shove you (like playing king of the mountain) would you stand withyour legs together or apart?

Pick up a copy of Ober's Tractor Loader Backhoe book, search the archives under backhoe and book, just recently I and others posted links to new copies and how to find used books. It may save you and your tractor both some pain...

Your dealer doesn't sound like he's spent any time as an operator.

And I wouldn't put any weight in the front tires.

Dig on

del

 

[Richard]

Thanks, I'm off and hunting books...

 

[DVerbarg]

Gerard,

Having a whopping 2 weeks of experience with a toothbar /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I would agree with the recommendation for a bolt-on toothbar. There are times that you wonder how you ever survived without it (kindof like that feeling after you initially get the tractor) and times when it is in the way for doing finish work.

DaveV

 

[TomG]

I think you'll probably want something on the bucket for lifting brush. My bucket probably is smaller than yours, but it's pretty disappointing trying to scoop and lift a bucket of brush. Stuff that's longer than the bucket ends up across the front and prevents it from filling. When lifting, tangled stuff that's outside the bucket does a real good job of pulling stuff from inside the bucket back onto the ground.

A tooth bar should help, and forks on the bucket might help even more. I heard of somebody rigging up forks that clamped onto a bucket. He claimed they handle fair weight. I don't think I'd trust such a rig with weight, but the idea might be pretty good for something fairly light like brush.

There is a whole range of commercial bucket attachments--from forks that bolt on a bucket to bucket replacements. There also are hydraulically operated grapples, but some of these things are pretty pricey. Grapples would do a good job of lifting your brush.

Some of the more elaborate accessories are fairly specific to a tractor/loader. What's available for a dedicated loader/hoe may be more limited and almost certainly more expensive.

 

[Bird]

I would think that the bolt on toothbar would help with moving brush, but since I don't have one, I don't know how much. I do have a set of 4' fork lift forks that I can put on the front of the bucket and that works pretty well.

Bird

 

[Richard]

The bucket on this thing is 8 feet wide and based on eyeballs only, maybe 3 1/2 feet +/- "tall" in the front. I pushed over 3 pine trees and one cedar last night just to get a feel for this. One of the pine trees broke at about knee level as did the cedar, the other two pines uprooted. Kinda nice the amount of BACKPAIN I just saved /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

I think I am going to get the tooth bar, I might also even get the regular cutting bar...what the heck. It's only money right?

I called dealer about a 4 way bucket...OVER $5,000 /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif I decided I didn't need it that much.

 

[gerard]

Listed in the classifieds of this site is a dealer that sells hydraulic grapples. About $900 for compacts, I don't know id they make larger sizes for larger buckets but even a light duty set would work just for moving brush which is pretty light. I can't think of anything working better than that and the price isn't TOO bad. (Better than 5k anyway!) Guess it depends on how much brush you plan on moving in the future.