Ag tires vs. Industrial? Check out pic of TCE45!

RedHawkRidge · Feb 26, 2004

Jacob -- Don't know how you got the idea that R4's provide more stability on hillsides. Not !!!
Your problem on slopes are turning over and sliding. Stability of the tractor to resist turnovers comes not from the tires but from the wheel base side-to-side of both front and back, the center of gravity, plus the distribution of weight of attachments front and back.
I've used R1's and R4's on several CUT's almost entirely on hillsides, and the R4's will slide MUCH more than R1's on any surface (grass, unfinished ground, etc). If you get onto wet grass, the R4 slide factor goes up significantly. If you need to work during the winter on frozen or snowy ground, forget it -- you might as well have slicks on your tractor.
If you're attracted to R4's for their ruggedness, then you'd best look at radials, and more specifically the specialized radial R4's like the Michelin discussed in other posts, or Goodyear's IT510. Roadblocks are cost (high) and unavailability in CUT tire sizes, especially the fronts
If you have f/u questions, contact me.
jim

ZJ_HR · Feb 27, 2004

I have wide radials on my tractor. Really confortable, and good grip. And low ground pressure. Recommend it, if they are available there.

ZJ

Rick Jay · Feb 28, 2004

RedHawkRidge,

( Don't know how you got the idea that R4's provide more stability on hillsides. Not !!!
Your problem on slopes are turning over and sliding. Stability of the tractor to resist turnovers comes not from the tires but from the wheel base side-to-side of both front and back, the center of gravity, plus the distribution of weight of attachments front and back. )

Actually, the strength of the sidewall of the tire comes into consideration as well. As a tractor crosses a hill (sideways), there is more weight on the tires on the low side of the hill. As the angle of the hill increases, more of the weight gets distributed to these tires and the sidewalls. If the sidewalls cannot support this weight, the tire will fail...then the angle increases even more (due to the flat tire) and the tractor could become unstable and roll.

I believe R4's are considered more stable on hills because they have stronger sidewalls than R1's. If this is true, then they will add a margin of safety on the scenario I mentioned above.

As far as traction on slippery surfaces (mud, wet grass...but not ice), I agree that the R1's are better. On moderate slopes, where you're not testing the sidewall strength of the tire, I would think R1's have an advantage by not slipping as much on the contact patch of the tire. Once the slope increases to where sidewall strength comes into play, the industrial tires should have an advantage IF you're on a high traction surface.

Which is better? I guess it depends. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

~Rick

JerryG · Feb 28, 2004

Once the slope increases to where sidewall strength comes into play, the industrial tires should have an advantage IF you're on a high traction surface 
I have never seen anyone on a hill side so steep that the side wall flex came into play. Not even the highway crews and I have a couple of places that I really want to get pictures of them mowing.

RedHawkRidge · Feb 29, 2004

Rick Jay:
I have taken too many unplanned "trips" down a hillside. Your thoughts on R4 stability sound theoretical but are not real-world. Neither side wall strength nor rigidity on R1's or R4's have any significant affect on a CUT's resistance to sliding. The main factors that affect "break point" are the amount of edge and surface area of the tread. I can't imagine a CUT configuration that would roll its tire into a slide.
A typical R4 front or rear has far too much flat surfaces that act as "runners", and far too few edges that can grip the ground. In fact the tread on my JD4700's Titan R4's are rounded at the shoulders. They may as well be skis for all the help they give in resisting sideways sliding. The fronts are worse than the rears.
Another favorite discussion point is usage on grass, and whether R4's damage turf less than R1's. Well, I have carved up and thrown just as much grass turf with R4's as I ever did with R1's. If you're going to make sharp turns with any CUT, plan on fixing up the torn up turf regardless of tire.
I can't figure out the infatuation with R4's that seems to inhabit a lot of CUT owners. Yeah they look good, are hefty and are used on industrial loaders etc, but they are just a compromise between Ag's and Turf's -- they don't do anything really well. That's why the Michelin radial appears to be a winner -- it looks more like a R1.
jim

MChalkley · Feb 29, 2004

( Those MChalkey Michelins sure are sweeeet! Thanks for dredging up that info. I will want those ifn I wear my ags out. )

Ken went to some work to dig up all those links - some of them go back a while...

I'm running the XM37's on my EarthForce nowadays and very pleased with them. They're not as soft a rubber as the XM27's, but for my purposes, and considering the 4500 lbs or so that could easily be on each of them at any given time, that's not a bad thing. I've noticed they don't cut as easily, and traction is probably fairly close, on most surfaces. They've got tougher sidewalls, though, so they don't "air down" as much. It doesn't matter on my EF-500 because I have to run 35 psi in them anyway, but I had those monster 19's on my old L4310 aired down to 9-10 psi!

Matt400 · Jan 21, 2010

Good thread, have to ask an opinion..
Between the AG, Turf and Industrial tires- which is going to give better traction for snow covered pavement during snow removal?
Also in summer months I would need good traction on off road hilly terrain so have to compromise.

I like the looks of the Industrial best but worry about its performance on snow covered pavement.

RickB · Jan 21, 2010

Matt400 said:
Good thread, have to ask an opinion..
Between the AG, Turf and Industrial tires- which is going to give better traction for snow covered pavement during snow removal?

Whichever set has chains installed.

Loren49 · Jan 21, 2010

Jacob,
I feel that the level of durability of any of the tires discussed is not a significant issue for use in a vineyard. I believe any of them will last as long as needed. Ag tires will leave more of a track on soft ground so it depends on overall use. They will have much better traction in most conditions.

My 2 cents,
Loren

Gary Fowler · Jan 21, 2010

The one thing no one can argue with on R? vs R4. The R4 is going to outlast any other tire for tread life. There is so much more contact area on the tires that the PSI pressure is much less on each tread bar. I think THAT is the reason for using them on industrial equipment. Traction is usually not an issue with backhoes and road graders, off road dump trucks etc. but mileage is, so they want the max that they can get. Also lots of industrial equipment miles are put on the tires on hard surface roads which wears down R1 tires very fast.