Al qaeda is planning their next attack

[CarlGlas]

</font><font color="blackclass=small">( </font><font color="blackclass=small">( How many civilians do you know of that could actually shoot someone and not feel anything except the recoil? )</font>
How many of our defending forces are any different?
More importantly, do we really WANT people fighting for our country's name and honor, who DON'T feel compassion for our foe's, many whom feel they are defending THEIR country's onor? Things aren't always as black and white as they seem.
</font><font color="redclass=small">( Maybe we'd all be better off leaving fighting wars to the military and fighting crime to the police. )</font>

Although I agree with your assumptions, I disagree strongly with your conclusions. Where was Flight 93 aimed, and what would have been the results if the passengers had waited for the "authorities" to take charge?
JMHO, but "Homeland Security" is a joke and always will be until we stop assuming our "Patriotic Duty" starts at the polls, and ends when our preferred politician is elected. When our forefathers added the 2nd amendment to the Bill of Rights, they assumed we would shoulder the responsibility which goes with the right to bear arms. We have lost sight of that vision.
Instead of prying into civilian's lives, our government should be aiding us to identify risks... and we should be training, so we ARE qualified to aid the official military and police. By definition, the militia is NOT an armed force trained by the government; it is citizens armed to defend against threats. It's degree of effectiveness depends on the innitiative of each individual.

In rural areas dialing "911" is defined as "Dial a prayer for police"

I got a real wakeup call when I realised that at least some of the B@$t@rds that flew the 9-11 planes drove past my house, on their route to infamy.

If we expect others to assume our risks, expect them also to assume our rights. )</font>



Here's some interesting reading....[/b]
http://tinyurl.com/ajf75

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue">A gun doesn't help much if the terrorist is wearing a bomb and is intent on dying, taking you along (as in the buses in London, or train in Spain, or airplanes against the World Trade Center).
</font>

Every time I hear about a case like this my mind flashes back to Vietnam where some women & children had explosives taped to their bodies intent on killing our troops, or the Kamikazes crashing into our many ships during the war, or even the explosion of the Federal Building in Oklahoma.

Humanity seems to be in the grip of some invisible, malevolent force. This uncontrollable demon impels us to tear our world apart, turning our own human productive powers against ourselves, transforming them into forces of self-destruction. Set against one another, we are reduced to a state of-utter powerlessness, mere spectators of our own actions, able neither to control nor to comprehend them. This is what makes the recent changes in the world appear so strange to us. (from the way we live now)

 

[jim_wilson]

Your link points off to a web page about constipation...... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[HGM]

Something that allot of folks here dont realize is that we are fighting an invisible enemy who follows no rules. We on the other hand must "be the better and not stoop to their level"... I have a problem with that mentality. As cliche as it may sound, like Jack Nicholson sayd in the movie A Few Good Men, "you cant handle the truth".. This goes to a large amount of the population here. We as a people would rather not hear about killing of women and childern, nor public beheadings or misstreatment of prisoners... The issue is that we are fighting a war against a people who dont care. What they do to their enemy(us) and captives are MUCH WORSE than we have ever done.... The media is intent on letting the American public know how bad we are as a country because of the "hazing" that happened to terrorist captives, but the beheading of innocent workers helping to rebuild a country goes largely unnoticed. The terrorists know that we cannot play their game because our media will cause a lack of support, therefore they win. Unfortunatly, as great as this country is, we allow our enemy to sucker punch us while we follow rules and take great losses for it. I for one, think we should play as dirty as they do and we could put an end to this quickly.. The media should be removed from combat and let our boys and girls do their job providing us a safe world to live at the same time as liberating a country who has been living in terror for centuries..

Disclaimer: the veiws expressed here are of the poster and are not intended to reflect the views of TBN as a group. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I felt the need to vent a bit, hope this doesnt cross the PC line we have here.........

 

[Jstpssng]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( there has been a lot of talk about that plane being shot down )</font>
I read that account last night, you could very well be right. Even if true, that doesn't detract from the passengers who took matters into their own hands when they realised what was going on.

 

[jim_wilson]

I agree with much of what you said here. The people we are fighting believe in their religion more than they believe in their country, their family, even their life. Can any of us here say that they would not fight an enemy in the same way if we truly believed in the cause enough? The passengers on Flight 93 obviously felt it was worth fighting even if they knew they were going to die. American history is full of examples of this kind of dedication from the French and Indian war all the way thru the Marines in Fallujah.

Personally I don't believe in any of what of Al Quaeda is for nor do I agree much anything of the culture that spawned it. They are in the circumstances they are in because their belief system has led them there - basically it's their own fault. Blaming Westerners or Christians for the woes of the mideast and Islam is just a blame game in my opinion. But I also believe that we have played right into their hands with our invasion of Iraq. Basically we have just gone in and reinforced with our actions what the terrorists said we were like all along. I don't quite understand how our invasion of Iraq is going to drain the pool of terrorists - history shows that wars inevitably create a population of people who are trained for war. During the American Revolution many who fought on both sides were veterans of the French and Indian war. After WWI many gangsters used what they learned during the war and the Tommy Gun became popular because of the experience of WWI veterans. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan gave us Bin Laden and many other trained mujahadeen. Unless we are willing to go thru the whole of the Mideast and wipe out everybody under the age of say 45 we are inevitable going to leave behind some trained future terrorists when we pull out of Iraq and we are leaving a large part of the population genuinely peeved at us.

Homeland security is a joke - frisking 70 year old Swedish grandmothers while we allow pretty much anybody to sneak over the border from Mexico and refuse to round up illegal immigrants does nothing to enhance national security. For that matter spending 200 odd billion dollars of the nations wealth on a war that will not solve anything in the long term does nothing for us either. I have said it from the beginning of this war and I will continue to say it - if we had taken all of the money that we are going to spend on this war and spent it on developing sources of alternative energy we would have been better off in the long run. Ecologically, national security wise, technologically, economically, and historically we would have been way ahead if we were able to put ourselves in a position where we not longer relied on petroleum from the Middle East. Develop sources of alternative energy with the specific intent of getting off of Mideast Oil - share it with countries that have been loyal to us and are also dependent on that oil - like Japan - and then tell the entirety of the Mideast to go pound sand. Pull out all of our military - pull the Navy from around their countries and say this is not our problem anymore. I don't see why any of our military should die for Iraq - they are now and will continue to be ungrateful. Once the oil money stopped flowing the area would be reduced back to what it was in the late 1800's - very poor with no real economic resources and no world influence. If you want to win a war that is how you do it. With nothing left to hold over our heads the Mideast would either drop back into a sort of poverty like the Saharan region of Africa is now in or it would be forced to finally modernize theologically and culturally or perish.

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't see why any of our military should die for Iraq - they are now and will continue to be ungrateful. )</font>
Hmm... having been there, I can say that their next-door neighbors, the Kuwaitis, are still quite grateful...

Why are the Iraqis inherently different?

 

[jim_wilson]

From everything I have read the Kuwaitis are still very grateful to Americans for what we did for them. I think the situation between the Kuwaitis and the Iraqis is different however. In one case we kicked out an invader and in the other case we are the invader. I don't read too much on the news about American soldiers getting blown up in Kuwait yet almost every day I see the list increase of soldiers who have died in Iraq. I realize that my statement that "they are now and will continue to be ungrateful" is a blanket indictment and does not reflect the mindset of each and every Iraqi but taken as a whole when I see the reports of convoys ambushed with IED's , kidnapped reporters and aid workers, KIA military men and women I don't see a whole lot of gratitude emanating from Iraq lately.

A good comparison to make is the current state of Iraq vs. what happened in the US after Sept 11. President Bush and many others went out of their way to say that this should not be a reason to attack Muslims. Many efforts were made to not make Sept 11 a blanket indictment of Islam. I am 100% certain that if significant attacks on Muslims had occurred in the US after Sept 11 the outcry around the world would have been deafening. Yet since that time the indictments of terrorism from within the Muslim world itself have been few and far between. Much has been written about this by people far better versed on the subject than I am. If the majority of Iraqi people are so grateful for our presence there then where is the outcry to stop the attacks against our soldiers? Frankly I don't see it. I have lost count of the number of Iraqis who have lost their lives to car bombs and the like - and one of the more common excuses that I hear about this is that the dead Iraqi's were "collaborators" or "infidels" or whatever other excuse word the terrorists want to use. Far from supporting our troops in digging out the terrorists and insurgents the population gives them a sea to hide in - similar to the population during the Vietnam war did to help the Viet Cong. This might not be outright visible support but it is support nonetheless and it sure isn't gratitude.

 

[Trev]

I see the statement that "Homeland Security is a joke" appearing here multiple times.

Let me tell you of my minor encounter with them, at the main office in Buffalo, NY. My wife is from Canada, and so we had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get her a permanent resident visa.. which involved a lot of trips to Homeland Security.

The weirdest time was when we were coming in one day, and I got to chatting with the Wackenhut Security guy who was running the metal detector equipment. (Wackenhut is a private organization which provides security for many of our most secure govenment sites.) As we chatted, it became apparent that this metal detector didn't let *anyone* through without an alert.. at which point the person would be hand-scanned for whatever it was that set off the main detector.

Now, think about that for a moment. We have an expensive machine, and operators, and they are actually bragging that even a guy's zipper will set it off. So what are they really saying? I kept a straight face while talking to him, but in the elevator I let out a small whoop. This security guy was bragging that he had a device with a 100% false positive rate! If *everybody* who walks through it sets if off, then throw it in the scrap bin, stop paying the operator, and just skip that useless step and go right to the hand scanner. It is providing NO security whatsoever! Do they not understand security at all??

The second amusing aspect was that no cameras or cell phones are allowed in there. The guy spots my wife's, which she had forgotten to leave in the car. He said "Oh heck, just stick in in the bottom of your pocket book and don't let anyone see it. It could cost me my job if someone saw that." Great, thanks pal!

The third amusing aspect of the trip was when a very officious looking woman began questioning my wife on video. "Do you plan to overthrow the United States Government?" "Do you intend to employ bombs or other devices to destroy United States property?" And lots more questions along the same lines. So I politely asked if anyone ever answered "yes" to any of those questions? She looked at me for a moment, and then said "No, nobody ever answers yes, but if they later engage in some such activity we have them on record committing perjury."

Okay, let me get this straight.. someone who blows up a building... and gets caught.. is going to be worried about having committed perjury... by having sworn they weren't going to do that? I would think they would have enough other charges against them to not really be too worried about the perjury, but what do I know?

This whole visit could easily have been scripted by Monty Python!

And nobody there that I spoke to had any sense of how ridiculous all of this seemed.

We left shaking our heads and thinking that *this* is what our tax money is paying for?

Oh, and when we brought my wife's belongings across the border into the U.S., we had the biggest U-Haul truck we could rent. The guy at the border, who looked like a member of ZZ Top, asked if we had any weapons or explosives in the truck. We said no. He said "Ok, have a nice day!"

I could go on, but I don't want to ramble any more. You get the idea.

 

[MikePA]

Let's move on to less political topics.