Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion

[Bob_Skurka]

There is no price at which I believe any government entity should intervene.

Well you will think different when the economy goes full boar into a recession and nobody buys your tractors - because they cant afford the diesel or your prices....

Well if I understand economics at all, if we get to a point that nobody is buying fuel, then the supply will greatly exceed the demand. When the supply exceeds the demand by a large margin on any good, the price tends to dramatically fall.

But I will tend to agree with Wayne that there is no price at which I believe government should intervene and 'set' prices. You are either a principled person or you are not. In my dealings with Wayne, I believe he is a principled person.

1. If what the oil companies are making now is too much, what's the right amount of profit?

2. Who will set this amount?

3. How will it be enforced?

4. How will it lower fuel prices?

Mike, pick me pick me pick me!!!
I will determine when they make to much, but please don't limit me to just the oil companies. Let me determine when a plumber is gouging people by upcharging too much for a part. And have you thought about Diamonds? Heck for a piece of polished rock you can get set back $5000 or $10,000 pretty easily. I think those are over priced. Let me set the margins for jewelry stores. And what about grocery stores charging 25-cents an ear for sweet corn when the roadside stand sells them 12 ears for $2. For crying out loud how long can we put up with the over charging and huge profits the supermarkets make?

. . .

A wise man told me this, I present it here in this thread, not directed to anyone in particular, but directed to everyone so that we may all consider them an learn that we should not turn to government to provide us with things because when we do, we realize our own destruction:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

--Lord Alexander Tytler on the fall of the Athenian republic
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[_RaT_]

Bob, I was looking for the big thumbs up icon but could not find it so here "a big thumbs up too you". Nail, head, you hit'em both.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Bob . . . Nail, head, you hit'em both.

Yea, I've been told that I've been hit on the head more than once. Apparently I might have been dropped on my head as a kid too

 

[Volfandt]

Interesting thread. A good topic that needn't be mired in emotionalism.

We've lived off the teet of cheap oil for far too long. Like an alcoholic or drug addict we've become dependant and think we can't ween ourselves from it.
We can and should.... But our enconomy will have to change too, back to where it was perhaps with a more localized infrastructure .

Like some have already stated, we don't need the fed gov to step in and run the oil industry. The fed gov DOES need to insure that no existing laws are being broken.
Equipment breaks down all the time. Equipment needs to be shutdown for scheduled maintenance also. There is poor planning in that there is no redundancy on the pipeline, the question should be why isn't there?

Why are oil & natural gas wells standing idle in Texas and TN? Why are there no more refineries between our borders?
Why are we still driving fuel inefficient automobiles?
Why are most of our leisure & pleasure machines fuel inefficient?

You know goods will still get delivered to places that still have rail and waterway access.....
And perhaps local manufacturing plants will reopen when it is no longer cheaper to make it on the other side of the world and ship it here.....

So are we being gouged by the oil Co's? I've read somewhere that the state & fed gov make more off of a gal of gas than anyone else in the chain....

Hummmm, perhaps the fed IS running it.....

Volfandt

 

[dieselsmoke1]

Perhaps we could bring this thread back to the original topic, Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion.

Forget about the record profits for a minute, all that does for me is prove that there were more than adequate resources available for PM or repairs or redundant equipment or whatever.

I have a hard time believing this "unexpected failure" caught many at BP by surprise. It's a succssful major company, must be some intelligent folks in the pile. I'd expect this condition has been known and discussed for many years now. Nope, IMO the more I learn the more this looks like a goal oriented orchestrated event.

 

[bugstruck]

Hummmm, perhaps the fed IS running it.....

Volfandt

They lease most of the US land and water the oil companies pull it from. Tax at the pump and every stage before that. So yeah, it's a government windfall. You had some good points. We had an opportunity to mitigate our dependancy in the 70's and 80's and missed it. The alternatives never were seriously pursued. Not in the government's or oil company's better interest at the time. Now we get into a contest of who is right and who is wrong. Well I know who is wrong. We are as a County for not addressing this problem and doing something serious and constructive some time ago. Now the DOE has favorable opinions on the possibility of extracting crude from oil shale under Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah as I recall. The technology is coming and the reserves are incredible in that area. Water availability for extraction requirements is a problem for that as is environmental. But I bet they get past all that eventually as the alternative, when the US wells run dry, is the government and oil companies will loose some of their grip on this steady stream of $. It's a symbiotic relationship both very much benefit from. The government didn't just open more production areas in the gulf cause they think we are paying too much at the pumps. If overdseas supply concerns weren't part of this mix, with the potential disruptions and tax implications to the economy, they'd still be asleep on this IMO. Keep in mind the US government is still us. Oil companies are doing what businesses do, maximizing profits. We like that virtually all the time. Just not when it crimps us personally. Time to roll up our sleves and get on with the solution. Bashing the government or big oil isn't going to solve it. But if the government knows we know by voicing our concerns they will let the alternative fuels live this time. If we loose interest and oil goes to $40.00 a barrel, we should save a link to this thread and save our fingers for the next one. It will all have already been said as it already was.

 

[WhyNot]

Perhaps we could bring this thread back to the original topic, Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion.

Forget about the record profits for a minute, all that does for me is prove that there were more than adequate resources available for PM or repairs or redundant equipment or whatever.

I have a hard time believing this "unexpected failure" caught many at BP by surprise. It's a succssful major company, must be some intelligent folks in the pile. I'd expect this condition has been known and discussed for many years now. Nope, IMO the more I learn the more this looks like a goal oriented orchestrated event.

It seem's as though the only energy companies that do pm's any more are Nuclear and that is because their facilities are overseen by the NRC. I am no CFO so I don't know but there must be a bigger tax right off for pipeline replacement than for doing PM's. Surely it is cheaper to run a pig down the line every couple month's and keep it clean to prevent corrosion than it is to replace the pipe line. Think of the amount of $ it is costing BP an hour with that pipeline shut down and the money needed to replace it more than likely more than I make in a year.

 

[DavesTractor]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

--Lord Alexander Tytler on the fall of the Athenian republic

​

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Well said. I've been aware of that quote for some time, and it is worrisome in it's truth.

 

[ducati996]

Not exactly sure what your saying here Ducati, suffice it to say, I wait for the day that SBC now known as AT&T brings service to me. They are $10 a month cheaper then my local and independent telecom company and offer name tags with caller ID. A simple thing but important to me.

How long do you think that will be when they they merge? Its a funny thing when you look around and see you no longer have choice and the provider has no competition. Dont think for a second your rates wont go up shortly afterwards. Nobody to stop them, and you no longer have a choice. If you say Voip, you will see sudden a dedegration of service, lost calls or unable to connect to certain areas. They will be blocking ports, IPs, etc for Voip providers, to stiffle competiton and force them to raise pay more for service and raise your rates if you have the service. This is prophecy my friend and it will happen soon enough....

 

[ducati996]

Well if I understand economics at all, if we get to a point that nobody is buying fuel, then the supply will greatly exceed the demand. When the supply exceeds the demand by a large margin on any good, the price tends to dramatically fall.

But I will tend to agree with Wayne that there is no price at which I believe government should intervene and 'set' prices. You are either a principled person or you are not. In my dealings with Wayne, I believe he is a principled person.


Mike, pick me pick me pick me!!!
I will determine when they make to much, but please don't limit me to just the oil companies. Let me determine when a plumber is gouging people by upcharging too much for a part. And have you thought about Diamonds? Heck for a piece of polished rock you can get set back $5000 or $10,000 pretty easily. I think those are over priced. Let me set the margins for jewelry stores. And what about grocery stores charging 25-cents an ear for sweet corn when the roadside stand sells them 12 ears for $2. For crying out loud how long can we put up with the over charging and huge profits the supermarkets make?

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Bob,

Since your ideal is ok but not realistic at all. Its kind of utopian and probably has a different color sky then the rest of us. Im glad you feel Wayne and your self feel you are principaled. Thats just great but the majority of the corporations who have to re-state their earnings, or are caught in one felony or another, or another superintendeant or another school district is taking pay-offs and the list goes on. Folks can not be trusted when placed in corruptable positions. This example has been repeated time and time again.
The oil companies are in that position and they need to be held accountable.

Comparing a plumber, or a diamond mechant to a required energy source to fuel your car, home, or office is just a poor example and isnt even considered remotely related....put it this way gas and oil is almost as important as food and water. Diamonds you dont need, and neither are plumbers if you can do it yourself