All electric house and a generator

[techman]

Heat pumps don't work well below about 35 degrees, because the outside coil starts icing up and the pump has to use energy to defrost it. I

This is not really a valid statement. Modern heat pumps are generally rated to make twice the heat compared to electric baseboard at 17 deg F. Icing does reduce the efficiency, but icing is more a factor to the local weather. Rain, high humidity and wet snow can all cause icing, but cold dry air causes little to no icing. In reality the defrost cycle does not have a major impact on overall efficiency, since it is quite short term in operation. Modern heat pumps with demand defrost are quite good as the defrost occurs occur when needed, as determined by sensors.

The biggest factor reducing the efficiency of a heat pump is capacity loss. As it gets colder, the amount of heat (BTUs) drops as it gets colder, so a 36,000 BTU unit will generate 36,000 BTUs when the outside air is in the 40's. By 20 deg, the amount of heat generated may only be 20,000 BTUs, although those reduced BTUs are still made with 40% to 50% of the electricity that would be needed for an equivalent electric heater. Problem is that as it gets colder, the output drops. Colder also means the heat loss of the house is greater, so you would actually need more heat. So to fight the lower heat output and the additional need for more heat as it gets colder, the electric supplemental comes on, which does have an impact on the efficiency.

A modern, properly sized heat pump should not require any supplemental heat until the temps are in the mid 20's outside. Overall it is still pretty cheap heat.

Paul

 

[newbury]

Ok, keep talking guys I was starting to learn something lol

I guess I'm trying to decide if I should go with propane and diesel for backup power.

Propane for the stove, gas logs, and tankless water heater.

Electric for heating and air? Someone said propane heat was not cost effective.

I'm in North central GA.

I used to chuckle at the prepper types but things are getting very unstable in our world. I'm building a new home and I think it would be a wise investment to have systems ready in case of a grid attack. There, that makes me a prepper :-(

I'm also looking at the new insulation strategies on the market to decrease my consumption.

I've suffered "grid attacks" mainly by weather since the early '60's. Massive but rare outages in the Northeast, hurricane Isabel in 2003 shut down Northern Virginia for days, my boss who lived about 20 miles south of the Washington monument lost power for 2 weeks.

My Grandfather was a Mormon and made SURE we always had 6 months of supplies on hand AT LEAST, even though we were only a few miles from the grocery store and 12 miles from the center of Burlington Vermont.

Many a time the "system" has bombed out due to storm, politics, or some other shortage (how many remember the toilet paper shortage in the early 1970's?) and with a 6 month stock of all necessities we just cruise through it.

And as far as propane being cost effective - what are your alternatives for a generator?
Natural gas is cheap IF YOU CAN GET IT. Gasoline doesn't store well. You are already using diesel. I don't understand how you can go electric for backup

I should go with propane and diesel for backup power.

Propane for the stove, gas logs, and tankless water heater.

Electric for heating and air?

We had propane heat and how cheap it is all depends on the price per gallon. I always kind of figured it was similar in price as a gallon of gas but just a little bit lower, but it can vary so much. I believe it hit $5 per gallon here a few winters ago when there was a shortage. Thats expensive heat.

Yes, how cheap it is does depend on the price. But it stores well and is a lot better for barbecue than diesel

"Heat pumps are substantially more than 100% efficient. " Sorry I gotta red flag that one.
If you believe in perpetual motion then I want to talk to you about some real estate and a great deal on a bridge.

There is no such thing as 100% efficient nor does anything ever come for free. A lot of democrats may seem to think so but the laws of physics and economics both say no.

Thanks for injecting politics in it. Obviously republicans know everything comes at a cost but you can just stiff the seller.

 

[dadster4]

Another possibility is to have an oil fired furnace, they are in the 80+ efficiency range now, and diesel backup generator. Electric for all appliances...I am ALL electric and my monthly bill has never been over $125:confused2:

 

[newbury]

Another possibility is to have an oil fired furnace, they are in the 80+ efficiency range now, and diesel backup generator. Electric for all appliances...I am ALL electric and my monthly bill has never been over $125:confused2:

Could you tell us your cost per kWh?
Is it like this:

The base delivery charge for residential customers is $10.42 per month plus the charge for electricity.

Summer Period: $0.06603 plus $0.00303 environmental charge to equal $0.06906 per kilowatt-hour plus total monthly fuel cost.

Winter Period: $0.06296 cents plus $0.00303 environmental charge to equal $0.06599 per kilowatt-hour plus total monthly fuel cost.

from here

People up here in Northern Va were complaining about bills of $300 plus for a/c during the last few months.

Note that the US AVERAGE rate is around $0.12/kWh.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Heat pumps are 200%-300% more efficient, compared to electric resistance heat. So it is a true statement when taken in context.

Paul

It may be a true statement when properly qualified, as you did. Otherwise, no.

 

[grsthegreat]

I had .. Repeat had... A heat pump for 6 years. Worst investment i ever made. I live too far north for efficient heat pump use no matter what anyone says. My system was always going into emergency heat mode and defrost cycles. Winter elect bills topped $300 per month WITH wood burning fireplace inuse.

I yanked out heat pump and replaced it with 98% efficient gas furnace and standard ac unit. My combined utility bills dropped drastically. The house also feels warmer with gas heat. The heat pump warmed the house, but air out of vents felt cold compaired to room.

Since i went to gas heat, i also swapped elect WH to gas units and swapped dryer and range to gas also. Never going to look back.

Never run out of hot water like i did with elect unit due to rapid recovery times.

My new 22 kw gen runs entire house including hot tub heater, ac unit, and everything else.i didnt have to pick and choose what to power up.

 

[Redneck in training]

We have geothermal HP. The compressor is 4.8 kW (20A at 240V) and it generates about 18.5 kW of heat or 63000 BTU.
I also got few inquiries about soft start. The beauty of the Hyper Engineering | Home is there is no configuration and connections are so simple that average person can install it. It is Plug and Play. You might get devices that could, potentially, provide better function but only if correctly configured. Opposite is likely possibility. Not speaking about cost.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I had .. Repeat had... A heat pump for 6 years. Worst investment i ever made. I live too far north for efficient heat pump use no matter what anyone says. My system was always going into emergency heat mode and defrost cycles. Winter elect bills topped $300 per month WITH wood burning fireplace inuse.

Wood burning fireplaces are purely decorative, and have no heating function. Quite the opposite, they suck warmed air up the chimney and will substantially increase your heating bill. Glass fireplace doors will reduce heat loss, but you still won't get much heat out of a fireplace, if any. A fireplace insert will help a lot. All modern heating appliances have an external cold air intake to provide unheated combustion air. Don't blame the heat pump for a poorly designed house. You are fortunate to have natural gas available. Most rural homes do not. Thanks to the fracking boom, natural gas remains the cheapest possible way to heat a home.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Wood burning fireplaces are purely decorative, and have no heating function. Quite the opposite, they suck warmed air up the chimney and will substantially increase your heating bill.

In contrast, a wood stove is a great heating unit. I have heated exclusively with wood for about 12 years now. I don't have heating bills! (No, I don't pay for wood, either. There's so much available for free I doubt I will ever need to.)

 

[houstonscott]

I had .. Repeat had... A heat pump for 6 years. Worst investment i ever made. I live too far north for efficient heat pump use no matter what anyone says. My system was always going into emergency heat mode and defrost cycles. Winter elect bills topped $300 per month WITH wood burning fireplace inuse. I yanked out heat pump and replaced it with 98% efficient gas furnace and standard ac unit. My combined utility bills dropped drastically. The house also feels warmer with gas heat. The heat pump warmed the house, but air out of vents felt cold compaired to room. Since i went to gas heat, i also swapped elect WH to gas units and swapped dryer and range to gas also. Never going to look back. Never run out of hot water like i did with elect unit due to rapid recovery times. My new 22 kw gen runs entire house including hot tub heater, ac unit, and everything else.i didnt have to pick and choose what to power up.

You are exactly right, wish I had gas here... HS