All Things Livestock...

[Spiveyman]

Great story! It's amazing what a motivated bovine can accomplish. Luckily our trailer has solid sides, cut gate, and top. It's more like a horse trailer than a cattle trailer. We didn't like that at first, but it's probably saved our tails a few times so far. The next big thing is on the horizon for us... Bison. We've been asked to provide Bison for a grocery store, and our distributor is excited to add that to his list as well. I've heard Bison are a whole new ball game and you have to have solid walled trailers or they will flat out tear it up trying to get out. I'll let you know how that goes. Our first scheduled kill will be Nov 15.

 

[MikeD74T]

Water tank...My partner suggested digging a smaller diameter hole underneath it fairly deep. One small enough that it won't slip down into the thing, but deep enough to circulate some warmer air from below to help keep it from freezing up. Does that sound reasonable? Any thoughts there?

A few year ago I dug a hole for a neighboring dairy farmer and we put 12' of 18" culvert vertically under a water trough. It went 3 winters without freezing then they sold out in a dairy reduction program. His water pipe came into the side of the culvert & up to a float. The trough was about 2'x3'x 8" deep, probably better described as an oversized waterbowl. We get multiple days of 0-10F. The farmers son was a trucker & had seen something like in Oklahoma. MikeD74T

 

[Spiveyman]

Around my neck of the woods, a 12' deep 18" wide hole is called a well. I doubt I could dig 12' down and not hit water. Actually, I doubt I could dig 12' down period, but that's another story. When I get my back hoe I'm going to have to dig a 10' hole just because I can. Of course judging from the time it took to get the tooth bar in I figure it will be 2013 before I get the back hoe.

Anyway, cool! Glad to hear that there is some credence to doing it that way. Hopefully I'll be puting in a more permanent water tank soon (waiting on money). For now the cattle seem happy. At least there is a source of water.

 

[texasjohn]

Amazing story about how neighbor wanted payment for putting cow into trailer not attached to pickup, then breaking leg.

Interesting comment re electricity and horns... all I can say is that make sure that you have a fence charger qualified for 100 miles... 200 is better... they are at TSC... Not sure what you will do since horns can rip out barb wire...

Hmm... buffalo.... I gotta be honest with you... I gotta recommend you leave them alone.. I have no personal experience, only personal stories from people over the years. My belief is that they are COMPLETELY different animals from regular cattle. They can become vicious in an instant, will test EVERY fence, enclosure, whatever, and are strong, strong, strong. They are simply wired differently from regular cows. I doubt, strongly, that you can handle them with your current equipment and frankly fear for your safety. Somebody who has personal experience with BOTH animals may be able to refute my beliefs, but I believe they are realistic.

 

[Spiveyman]

At the moment we have no plans to have buffalo on our land. We have already contacted two producers who have animals who are willing to supply us the animals we need. The business model for the company we started is more of a cattle procurement company. We never intended to raise everything we sold. The plan is to sell way more than we ever could raise personally. Then we each have our own ranches and sell into the company, but the company also buys from other producers.

So along those lines, our involvement would be to stop by, load up a bison, drive it to the slaughter house and drop it off. Eventually we'd have them deliver the bison straight to the slaughter house. My only concern now is the things climbing out of the pens or chute at the slaughter house. They are pretty tall, but yeah, I've heard the stories as well. That's one trip we will be sure to bring a rifle on, just in case. The good thing is that they are not covered by the USDA.

On another subject, my partner is getting a graduate degree right now in animal science and one of the things he's going to be doing is getting certified in AI. What are your thoughts of going that rout, AI all your cows and not have to deal with so many bulls? We'll probably have a couple bulls, the one's that have the best temperment as discussed, but this would be a good way to diversify the genetics and use only proven stock.

 

[texasjohn]

Glad the FEL driver for T posts worked for you... I think you have the idea down now... all you need to do is get a piece of pipe just larger thana T post, weld a solid end on it, cut it to length so bottom of pipe just kisses ground when T post is driven to proper depth... and, you have solved the bent post problem as well as "how far do I drive it?"

AI is an interesting experience.... theory is better than practice.. UNLESS, you are there, DAILY, to determine when an animal is in standing heat and do the AI in the proper 6 hr window... labor intensive. Yes, synchronization can be done too.... any AI technique you try, regardless of efforts at superb management, will meet with limited success. Best efforts will result in a 60% pregnancy rate.... and you will need to AI again, or use a clean up bull. Result will be that it is impossible to have a concentrated breeding/calving period. If all your cows are not calving at the same time, then your AI efforts will be similarly spread out... all over the calendar... and calving intervals will slip and slip.. not for every cow, but more so than if you were only using bulls. AI can be used to reduce the number of bulls required, total. However, unless you have so many cows in heat at once (maybe 4 or more a day) that they start shooting blanks, you really don't need AI for that reason.

The only reason for AI, best I have determined, is to have calves that you can sell that are from "that great xxx bull" and "famous cow of mine" . If you can develop a market for such animals, at a profitable return for cost of straws, your labor, lost oportunity time, etc... that is dandy.

Try it, but I am betting you won't stay with it for more than a couple of years, if that. Your partner when he finishes his degree will be far smarter than I am and will surely want and need to put his degreed learning into practice... and he should... it's a graduate program....

These folks Capitol Land and Livestock
are where I sell my calves... they collect from all over the area, are extremely vertically integrated, background animals until ready, have lots of cattle trailers and deliver trailer loads to feeders, etc... What you are trying to do is to match their operation.... they are superb at what they do.. worth studying.

Suggest you have a HEALTHY trailer before you start hauling buffalo! Glad you respect them already!

 

[Spiveyman]

I hear you on the AI. It sure seems like a lot less work to just have a good bull out there and let him do his job. However at this point we're not trying to have a concentrated calving peroid. Actually quite the opposite. Our cows are a bit spread out right now and we are running the bull with them constantly. Since we are covering the full gamut of the process - conceptoin to consumption - and people eat beef all year, we don't mind having cattle spread out in ages and weights. This also maximizes our production, the cattle should be covered as soon as they are open again, rather than waiting a couple months to ensure a certain calving season. We may have to change that later on as we grow, but for now that's where we are.

I had fun this weekend. One of the cattle got in the watering tank, broke the heater off, so I had a 4" hole in the bottom of the tank. It was paritally burried so it didn't drain completely, but leaked enough to make a marsh around the tank. I had to get in there with my FEL and dig that thing out. Made the biggest mess I've ever made and loved every minut of it. At this point anything I get to use my tractor for is still fun for me. We wound up taking out a section of fence (so I could get my tractor in a smaller pen) and moved the tank up next to the barn. This should work out much better for me anyway. Now the tank is right by the barn, the cord for the heater will be dry, and we put a couple of feed bunks next to the water. Now I can drop grain in the bunks from inside the barn and start getting the cattle up by the barn for phase 2 - which will be feeding them in the barn and patterning them for working purposes. It's slow going right now and I can't get cost sharing until the 1st of the year, but we'll plan now and break dirt after Jan 1.

I'm also getting real good at running barbed wire. I re-inforced a big section of fence Sat as well. They hadn't challenged it yet, but figured I'd give them another reason not to.

 

[texasjohn]

You understand AI, good, so no illusions.

Feed bunk immediately adjacent to water will result in feed being dropped into the water when cows lift their heads up and feed dribbles out.. fouling the water... perhaps there is some separation between the two..

I unroll barb wire, when necessary, by putting a pipe in the 3ph arms and putting the spool on the pipe then driving along the fence line.

Glad you are having fun... yes, it's amazing that cattle will somehow get into the water trough on occasion and bust things... Where I grew up there was a concrete trough running between two pens and the float was sheltered by a very stout wide wood cover centered in the trough where the fence was.

 

[Spiveyman]

Feed bunk immediately adjacent to water will result in feed being dropped into the water when cows lift their heads up and feed dribbles out.. fouling the water... perhaps there is some separation between the two..

Wow. I'm definitely getting my money's worth out of this forum! Thanks. Never thought about that. So, I'll be moving the feed bunkers now... How much separation are we talking about? 5', 10', more?

I unroll barb wire, when necessary, by putting a pipe in the 3ph arms and putting the spool on the pipe then driving along the fence line.

Another good idea. I bought one of those hand held deals that lets it spool out, but it would be nice to just drive. Of course there were several spots where we crossed a creek or there were trees in the inside of the fence, but it's probably still easier to just take the spool off, deal with whatever is there, and put it back on the tractor.

Glad you are having fun... yes, it's amazing that cattle will somehow get into the water trough on occasion and bust things... Where I grew up there was a concrete trough running between two pens and the float was sheltered by a very stout wide wood cover centered in the trough where the fence was.

Mischevious little suckers. If they'd been out there when the house got broken in to I might have suspected them.

 

[texasjohn]

Just enough separation such that they don't lift their head and get pushed out of the way and then stand over the water and continue chewing and dropping expensive feed in the water. Of course, best solution is to have sufficient bunk space such that every animal can stand without competition and eat all they want to with only minimal head lifting... to avoid feed loss of any kind.

Sounds like you need a "BEWARE, LONGHORN WATCH BULL" sign

Hadn't heard the house got broken into... terrible aggrivation... happened to us... barn broken into and tools stolen... before we started living on our place. makes me mad all over again