All,,,,,

[BigAl]

This is a really great thread and the answers supplied by the different members are thoughtful and very well written . I believe the bottom line is "RESPECT". The ability to respect someone elses opinions even If I do not agree with their opinion. But that "respect" needs to go both ways and unfortunately there are a few members that cannot or willnot do this . With more and more new members coming on board this issue will not be going away and it is bound to raise its ugly head more often as time goes by .Hopefully , with the capable staff of TBN this "child like" behavior will be kept at a mimimun.
As Bird said earlier and also posted ,the rules are already in place to police TBN .
I feel their should also be a "3 stikes your out" Rule for someone who goes personal on another TBN member for there opinion . 2 warnings and the third time just pull there membership .
Just my opinion , Gentleman .
allen

 

[Mith]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'd be happy if 20 responded )</font>
Well John, im the 21st, but one of them was your own, so thats 20. Congratulations man! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif You can go to bed a happy man tonight /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I think the problem is people take the whole thing a bit too seriously, theyre tractors for crying out loud, were not argueing over personal matters like weight and height (well we better not cos im a short....person). I think itd be far more realxed an more information would flow if everyone mellowed out a bit and answed the question rater than countering another posters words. Just state yer opinion/facts and run, dont say wether any other poster is wrong or whatever.

Overall though I think we are a pretty balanced group, if you want to see nutters in action go to Gardenweb and post Craftsman V Deere, then youll realise how good it is here.
I really come here to sample the social side, I like talking to people from other places. I dont have much to add to tractor converstains as I dont own a proper one, but I try to help on garden tractor questions. I am pleasently surprised that so far nobody has commented 'but you dont own a proper tractor' But gotta say Im a whole lot more knowlegable about compact tractors after finding this site about a year ago.

 

[RoyJackson]

For the most part, I've got to agree with Muhammad and Bird Senter. Like it or not, we do have a varied group of members.

Any forum one visits will eventually have some flaming...TBN is actually really good at nipping that foolishness in the bud.

I can say I've only been flamed once in the three or four years I've been frequenting TBN. Even that one was more of an innuendo then a direct attack. I took note and responded appropriately...which elicited an apology from the poster. End of story...
Of course, after almost 30 years in Quality Assurance, I do have a pretty thick skin when it comes to abusive statements so I may have been flamed without knowing it.


Daedong made a good point when he stated the membership is transitioning from a rural community to a more urban mindset. I see this same thing in my area of PA. We're getting a lot of city dwellers moving into the country who don't realize what country is all about. That's a very sad thing...

As far as advising new or potential owners, I always steer them toward the big 3 models...unless one is willing and able to work on their own tractors, that's the safest bet. The lesser known brands may or may not develop the support networks required to maintain these machines. Kubota did...Kioti probably will...but many won't. The cheapest is not always the most value-added (especially if it's setting in the field broken down waiting for parts from China or Korea or somewhere else).
If a new owner buys a machine that breaks down and there is no support...well, he or she is an adult. They made their decision and must live with the good or bad results.

I've answered three posts in the last week concerning new owner questions. Two of them were answered by reading the same manuals that the owners received with the equipment (I didn't own any of the equipment the questions concerned...just read the online manuals).
One of those two bothered me a lot...it was pretty apparent the originator of the thread just wanted justification to go after his dealer. If he had read his tractor manual a bit more thoroughly, he'd of realized he didn't have a problem. That desire to bust the dealer (and there's a fair amount of that attitude on TBN) is what is going to destroy that friendly, family manner that many (but not all) dealers have.
The third question was about a piece of borrowed equipment...with a few suggestions, the equipment was squared away.


Now, I know we've lost a few members due to insulting remarks. That's a shame, but if one is going to offer advice or opinions, one better be ready if his or her comments are disputed or even ridiculed. Before you get all excited...just consider the source of any disparaging comments. More then likely, it's just another guy who may or may not know what he's talking about.

Going back to Daedong's comment (country going urban), it's a darn shame that with that transition comes a lack of civility and respect. No answers to that, except maybe to turn the other cheek.


Like any forum maybe some folks do take this forum just a bit too seriously. This referes to newbies and the veterans (including me...I've written a lot of posts that never made it on to the forum...normally these were response to statements that were rather inane or totally off the thread topic).

Well, done rambling...

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

After giving it more thought, and reading a few more replies, I decided to add a few more comments.

This site is no different than everyday life. Things change. Some for the better, some for the worse. There's new adventures coming along every day. There's old friends leaving us every day.

This site is without doubt, the most peaceful, well moderated, and most sensable website I've been around, considering the number of "members". Yet, there are a few that would change that if they could.

As is human nature, and typical of most of us men, we don't want to change, ESPECIALLY when we really like what we have. No such luck...... Times change, people change. Just the way it is. (As if I'm telling you something you didn't already know....)

Now for the flip-side....

Those who are new here, me included, need to realize this site has it's own personality. It isn't fair to those that "built" the place to make major changes without regard to those folks. Yes it is a "public forum", but it's also a bit of a social club. Respect the hierarchy. The site you "found" was "created" by these guys with 4000, 5000, or more post's. They have a little seniority, and with it, some due respect for what they've done here.

Finally... It's OK to disagree. In fact, it would be such a boring world if we all agreed on everything. BUT.... There's a diplomatic, inteligent way to present your opinions, even when they don't jive with the "normal" mind-set.

In other words.... BE NICE GUYS.......

 

[riptides]

Interesting post. Tons of GOOD replies.

One has to realize that perhaps for every written word (in haste) leaning towards the bad, there are probably many, many more readers with just the opposite comment.

I LIKE the posting about respect. Unfortunately being on the internet affords a level of anonymity, this removes a personality, and thusly removes the knowledge that personality has to share.

I feel BAD about the trash PM's. PM should be a privileged
tool gained perhaps by your member status or ranking.

There are a few of you that have said, "relatively new here", that is a time thing, your postings show wisdom and knowledge beyond your TBN profile. Cudos for and to you.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Dargo]

<font color="blue">I LIKE the posting about respect. Unfortunately being on the internet affords a level of anonymity, this removes a personality, and thusly removes the knowledge that personality has to share.</font>

The internet not only provides anonymity, but it also allows certain people to be brazen and show their, er, let's call it their back side, when they would not be that way if face to face. I try to write posts as if they were to my next door neighbor. I offer advice if I have something to add. Let's say that my neighbor asked me over to offer my opinion of tractor "A" and tractor "B". I wouldn't walk over to his house and tell him that he is making a big mistake by considering a purchase of either tractor "A" or "B", and tell him he should buy tractor "Z".

First off, I wasn't invited there to espouse my opinion on tractor "Z". At best, if I owned tractor "Z", I'd tell him that I really am not qualified to suggest either tractor "A" or "B" since I don't own one of those brands, but I am happy with my tractor "Z". That way I offered my opinion (that's what we all do), I didn't insult him, I didn't make up a load of crap about pricing, I did offer that I'm happy with ole "Z", and I may even have a beer with him and discuss why I like ole "Z" if he asks. I'm not telling him what to do.

Isn't that the way we would do things in the "real world"? I know it's the way I would. Yes, respect. Why would I care if he said that he was happy that I liked ole "Z", but he preferred to buy "A" or "B". Mutual respect. He likely has his reasons for liking brand "A" and "B". Also, maybe he doesn't have any desire to be just like me and strike a bold statement with my "Z" brand. Why would I care? Afterall, I am happy with "Z", right?!

The same goes for the nasty PM's. After I visited my neighbor and he said that he is still going to buy a brand "A" or "B", why would I want to sit down and write him a nasty letter and mail it to him?! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif What the heck would I be thinking to do that?! Actually, if I were to do that, I wouldn't be thinking. Why would it matter at all to me if he spent his hard earned money on a purple tractor?! Hey, if he's happy with it, I'm happy. It's his money. Again, respect.

If someone pops off a rude comment to me in a public resturaunt, basically I mark it up to that person being an idiot and make a mental note to never associate with them again and certainly never take advice from them. Heck, he's probably from the "big city" where they all are rude. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TBN has been like good ole country folk. Always friendly and always welcome. It's just lately there are a dozen or two people who come here for their frustration outlet. I don't need that. I can find plenty of rude people with rather strong and ignorant opinions in line at the local gas station. You know the kind, they always want a few "scratch off tickets" and proceed to scratch them off as they prevent you from paying for your gas. Heavens forbid they win something! Then they want more scratch off tickets and start the whole process over again! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Guess why I only use "pay at the pump" gas stations?! I don't need that aggrevation and I don't have to have it. When things become annoying and you don't have to put up with it, you generally don't. Hopefully the few troublemakers on TBN will find another place to start fights and enjoy irritating people.

 

[btolle]

The thing that keeps coming to my mind is:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Bill Tolle

 

[hobbyfarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Things change. Some for the better, some for the worse. )</font>

This site is well run and moderated. Its format is really well designed and overall a great site.
It doesn't make you sit there with your mouth open while reading some garbage that the moderators are letting fly.

Try being a fly on the wall of <font color="blue">this</font> forum, you'll see how nice these people are (most of the time).

 

[bczoom]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The thing that keeps coming to my mind is:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Bill Tolle )</font>

Bill,

I try to do the same but from Desiderata.

"As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and agressive persons as they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others you may become vain and bitter for there will always be greater and lesser persons than yourself"

Brian

PS. I don't do brand recommendations. I may post size or implement if I have a working knowledge of the requirements of the poster.

 

[hobbyfarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( 3. Everyone should read the FAQ and the forum rules listed there and try to abide by them. Again, in my opinion, those rules are nothing more than common sense and courtesy. Everyone should also read the Terms of Service. )</font>

You know some people never read these items Bird mentions.
<font color="green">If they did, you wouldn't see any HTML tags that some members try to use.</font>

 

[kensfarm]

"Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice"

Sidney Freedman

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
"Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice"

Sidney Freedman
)</font>


That sure sounds like a great way to cool off and this certainly is a hot topic to many people. But I feel the troublemakers don't even know who they are or they don't consider their posts, actions, rude comments, attacks, and absolute lack of objectivity to be a problem. If John is thinking anything along the lines of what I think then this thread is really directed at maybe a dozen people who are running rampant. We have an active member who has been identified as a trouble maker and he posted to this thread in all high and mighty fashion, and when I say he has been identified, I mean by moderators who have told me this by PM. And as long as we are being a little bit blunt but still modestly "PC" then who here (those who have already posted to this thread) has not had a run-in with someone in the oil/lube forum with one particular member who frequents that area? And who here isn't just a little sick and tired of hearing "my brand is cheaper & better" but then when anyone posts that they can get a different brand at a lower price then seeing that guy attacked. . . Wait, most of here admit that they gave up on giving tractor referals so maybe they don't see those things because someone with maybe 50 or 100 total hours of seat time in their life on 1 tractor KNOWS IT ALL and shouts too loudly, over and over, ad infinitium.

Bird and some of the others suggest that we have 20,000 people here in this community. Personally I don't buy that. I agree we have that many people who registered, but we probably have 1/10th that amount who are regular visitors, and perhaps a couple hundred who are regular posters to the site. But even in a community of 20,000 people, I've never met a police officer who didn't know who caused most of the problems.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I've never met a police officer who didn't know who caused most of the problems )</font>

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gifBob, did you ever hear of the 15/85 rule? Naturally, I've forgotten who wrote the book, but the theory is that 15% of the drivers get 85% of the traffic tickets, cause 85% of the accidents, 15% of the population commits 85% of the criminal acts, 15% of your employees cause 85% of your headaches, etc. I don't know exactly how accurate that theory is, but there is a considerable amount of evidence in support of it. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[beenthere]

Bob
I would rather we focus on the members we 'support' rather than focus (at all) on the ones that 'frustrate' us.

In that light, can we name a few that we miss?

Hazmat, cowboydoc, Bob_in_MN are some who come to mind, but certainly are not all.

If we are missing some people, lets invite them back. There are many new members who come in without a clue or even a fraction of the knowledge that others have here. For the newbies, and even for some of us 'oldies', maybe we can get them back aboard.

I think I have thick skin, but I try not to work people up so they throw darts at me, cause it hurts, no matter how thick the skin is. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

But, I will stand my ground on some issues I feel strongly about, or just avoid walking into certain territory where I think the games could be rough on me. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
(oil is one of them, that I have mostly avoided to some extent).
There are very few (and no names even come to my mind at the moment) on this forum that have upset me to the point I would want them removed. I would yield those decisions to our hard-working and capable moderators.

 

[SkyPup]

Bird, you are 100% correct. 15% of the population are convicted felons and are currently either out on parole or probation. But remember, these are "only" the ones that have been convicted..... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[rockyridgefarm]

What purpose is TBN if there cannot be a reasonable exchange of ideas? How good can the information be, if those who possess the answers are uninterested in taking the time to answer? If, we prefer a wolf pack to seasoned posters, we might as well quit this effort.

I agree that TBN is overall a very civil place. I also see that there are some things that can be better. If losing our best isn't a sign of trouible, I don't know what is...

I agree that a noisy pack is destroying the hard work of a few. I also will take Muhammad's advice and use the means in place to help reign things in. I hope that the site owners can find a means to maintain the level of the past to attract a great exchange, and to solve the dilemma that seems to be facing the moderators.

 

[RobS]

<font color="blue">"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." </font>

I heard a variation on this recently called the platinum rule. "Treat others the way they want to be treated".

The traditional golden rule assumes others share your tolerance for aggression/opinion/sarcasm/cynicism etc. As this is often not the case, people have conflicts.

By considering the other person/people in your approach you have a better chance of being heard and understood. In a large group like this it's tough giving consideration to everyone but the more "neutral" the approach the less likely you'll run into fireworks. Some call this PC and to an extent it is but you can bet the more opinion/bias you put in a post, the more people will get stirred up. Of course, there are those who thrive on pot-stirring and that's why there are moderators.

Fortunately for most of us our common ground is relatively non-controversial... tractors and tractoring. At the end of the day our successes should be how much work we got done with our own tractors and how much we helped our friends on TBN /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[rockyridgefarm]

heard a variation on this recently called the platinum rule. "Treat others the way they want to be treated".

I beg to differ, that is the recipe for making spoiled brat.

 

[Mith]

Bob, you say the troublemakes might not know who they are. Would it not be wise for people, possibly just moderators, to PM those who are causing friction and give them a chance to renew their ways. Probably you already do this though.

 

[billbill1]

I haven't been around very long but really enjoy reading what the tractor community has to say. For the most part I like everyone at TBN and respect their input. There are 2 or 3 that I don't read no matter what their input is, I simply skip over their comments. I get along with almost everyone in my life too, I enjoy people and the different thoughts of the many different people I have met in my 53 years on this earth. The ones that I don't care for, I avoid as best I can, I can live without ever seeing or hearing from them again. I read TBN several times a day, I don't post from work so the only time I post is when I'm at home. If I've ever offended any TBN member, it was unintentional and I would like to know about it.