Alternatives to Concrete

[MMH]

Not really a tractor operation question but thought that there were plenty of knowledgeable folks here that may offer me some advice. I have a gravel driveway & can live with that, but need to set up an area where the kids can play basketball.

At $115 per yd. of concrete & $20 per ton of gravel & putting down 4" of each, I can pour concrete for $2.55 sq.ft. The prices I see for asphalt are too close to what I can do concrete for for me to consider.

Money really tight for now. Are there any other alternatives? Thinking about putting down a / the bigger size stones & then coating the top layer w/ smaller stones/pea gravel. Would this work at all? Any other suggestions?

 

[brin]

If you put down Crusher Run and smoothed and packed it real good and then soaked it real good with water it will harden almost like concrete...

 

[scesnick]

If you put down Crusher Run and smoothed and packed it real good and then soaked it real good with water it will harden almost like concrete...

Why not get some blacktop millings ( $10 a ton in my area) and rent a roller.

 

[sfloggie]

MMH,

Last month I leveled a dirt road leading into my land that had serious ruts and low spots. I considered a local guy, but he wanted $14,000. SO I did it myself by taking off work for three days.

I checked alternatives and ordered five truck loads of crushed concrete@20 tons each. I paid $13.57 a ton delivered. I rented a Bobcat to spread it as I did not want to scrape my fairly new tractor.

It took me three days as I had never done this before. It rained sightly a day or so after I completed the road and solidified as Brin noted. The road is great.

The road is very long as we have 112 acres. Thankfully this road is near the front.

 

[MMH]

MMH,

Last month I leveled a dirt road leading into my land that had serious ruts and low spots. I considered a local guy, but he wanted $14,000. SO I did it myself by taking off work for three days.

I checked alternatives and ordered five truck loads of crushed concrete@20 tons each. I paid $13.57 a ton delivered. I rented a Bobcat to spread it as I did not want to scrape my fairly new tractor.

It took me three days as I had never done this before. It rained sightly a day or so after I completed the road and solidified as Brin noted. The road is great.

The road is very long as we have 112 acres. Thankfully this road is near the front.

How permanent is this type of driveway? Can you give me details of how you prepped the road? Perhaps if it is cheap enough I will do my entire driveway as well. is crushed concrete the same as crusher run?

 

[MMH]

Why not get some blacktop millings ( $10 a ton in my area) and rent a roller.

what are the pros/cons of blacktop millings to crushed concrete?

 

[Red Horse]

Guys my two cents on Asphalt milling. We did a big parking area and some roadways at our fairgrounds a year ago. Stuff has held up very well. You don't want to dump it on a lousy base (loam) but if you have a solid gravel base, I think for a play area as described 2 or 3 inches ( before compaction) will work.

Stuffed we used was known as "micromilling" and came right off local interstate-we saved a few bucks as the contractors alternative site (their asphalt plant/quarry) was an addition 12 miles RT from our site

Key is you want to do it on a warm sunny day and spend as much as you can for a decent roller rental. We were lucky and had a big 86" drum vib roller donated. But I'm going to do my 500ft gravel driveway in the spring and I will spring for a small vib roller rental

 

[westcliffe01]

The only thing I would add is that asphalt is basically a waste product. I have seen many documentaries of increased incidence of cancer in neighborhoods around places that produce asphalt. Whether the problem stays at the source, or is connected to the content of the asphalt itself I am not sure of, but it could also be that it is most dangerous when heated and fluidized.

Something I noticed also on a rental property is that with new asphalt, one tracks some of the binder (under your shoes) into the house. The rental house had very light linoleum flooring in the kitchen and it had dark yellow staining after the first summer. That was a pretty short driveway, probably not much over 30ft long. I would guess this would lessen over time, but may be back after you re-seal it.

 

[sfloggie]

MMH,

1. Crushed concrete is as it is stated. It is simply recycled concrete from buildings, bridges, etc.
2. Crusher Run is a special type of limestone crushed stone that is a dense grade aggregate, or DGA. This is a mixed grade of mostly small crushed stone in a matrix of crushed limestone powder. This is great but I find it too much finer than crushed concrete.

From my experience, crushed concrete is much better.

Past experience:
I had 80 acres in Arcadia, Ok a few years ago in which I wanted a road into the land as there was only a crop field with a trail into the land. Nothing special was done to prepare the road. The road needed to be 3,000 ft long and 16 foot wide. First I had Crusher Run brought in and stone. It immediately (almost) disappeared in the OK dirt which is the consistency of baby powder in that area.
Next I used crushed concrete and it did not disappear. At first I thought there was a lot of "dirt". Then I learned this was the concrete "powder" and held the crushed concrete "rocks" It solidified fast and held up to 30 ton and more trucks. Also I noticed Bermuda grass would grow in it and learned there are a lot of nutrients in the crushed concrete.
That was early 2005 and I sold the land in 2006. However; I did not have to replenish or grade the road again and the new owner has not had to. He does have to bush hog it every now and then as some grass trys to come in as it loves the nutrients!

Important to note: Tell the rock company you do not want the finer grade of crushed concrete at the bottom of the pile. That you want more off the bottom of the pile that contains larger (average 3" or so) of crushed concrete.

Recent experience.

I did nothing to prepare the road. The trucks would only dump the load. They would not slowly go down the road leaving a trail almost like a crown. This was due to their safety in case a large amount of the load moved back too fast and lifted the truck.
The road (as noted) was full of ruts and low wet spots. I first dumped the crushed concrete into the worse spots and smoothed it out with a bucket. There were slightly bumpy spots because I never did this below and did so with a bucket, but nothing like before. A scraper would make it less bumpy, but I did not want to take the time (as of then). I kept adding bucket loads where it was wettest and came back to the spots a few loads later.
When finished the road was in such good shape my wife said she wanted our extended family Thanksgiving outdoors near the barn. Everyone (all "city folk") came and breezed without hitting bumps.

It has been a month and no wet spots, no degrading of the road. I will come back at some point with my scraper as soon as I learn how to hook it up! Learning as I go and reading this site before I do "whatever".
Jim

 

[sfloggie]

MMH,

By asking for "off the bottom of the pile" I mean higher on the pile not at it's base. The crushed concrete from my experience has more "rock" there.

The truck dispatcher called the plant when I asked for more rock or concrete rocks and the next load and there after was what I wanted.

Jim

 

[texasjohn]

My .02 worth...

Road base (mixed fines and smaller rock) costs me $4.00 a ton
3/8" washed crushed rock (kinda like pea gravel, but sharp edges) is 8.50 a ton

The quarry is 4 miles away, one way. I have my own hydraulic dump trailer so I haul my own material. I haul 9 tons at a time.

If worked carefully, the road base could be rolled and watered down to be extremely hard, nearly like concrete. It would seem very flat However, it would be dusty and problematic for a quality basket ball court since rocks would still be there and there would be sufficient unevenness to cause problems...wouldn't be like a wood or concrete base. That said, I've seen lots of kids playing on dirt courts, mostly in foreign countries, but doubt that you could measure a difference in the fun that they were having over those using an improved court.

The 3/8" pea gravel-like stuff would in no way be proper for a basketball court...it ALWAYS remains loose and mushy on top....don't even consider it.

If you did put down a solid base of some larger rock, flattened it, then put smaller rock down, flattened it, then put down blacktop millings and rolled it...then it would be just like a road base, wonderfully smooth, water resistant/tight. The county built the county road to my place using this technique.

Whatever you do, hope that your approach builds the right character in your kids!

 

[sfloggie]

Wow TexasJohn..good advice.

Also made me notice I got carried away with the road work and crushed concrete and I forgot he was asking for a basketball type court.

The Crushed run, what you noted or the finer crushed concrete would be best for the basketball court. The crushed concrete I described is great for a road, but rough on feet, ankles and knees.

Amen about character. My Dad gave each of us work on the farm such as cattle to watch who were calving or going to, so much land to bush hog etc. If he came home and we could not tell him how a cow was or had not bush hog then we were no that night. Our old Ford barely had lights. It only took me once to look for a cow who hid in the lowland near a creek to have a calf. I knew the "swamp monsters" were going to get me that night and I never forgot it!

It helped me in the Army as he died my senior year of high school and I went to Viet Nam..

Best to you.
Jim

 

[MMH]

My .02 worth...

Road base (mixed fines and smaller rock) costs me $4.00 a ton
3/8" washed crushed rock (kinda like pea gravel, but sharp edges) is 8.50 a ton

The quarry is 4 miles away, one way. I have my own hydraulic dump trailer so I haul my own material. I haul 9 tons at a time.

If worked carefully, the road base could be rolled and watered down to be extremely hard, nearly like concrete. It would seem very flat However, it would be dusty and problematic for a quality basket ball court since rocks would still be there and there would be sufficient unevenness to cause problems...wouldn't be like a wood or concrete base. That said, I've seen lots of kids playing on dirt courts, mostly in foreign countries, but doubt that you could measure a difference in the fun that they were having over those using an improved court.

The 3/8" pea gravel-like stuff would in no way be proper for a basketball court...it ALWAYS remains loose and mushy on top....don't even consider it.

If you did put down a solid base of some larger rock, flattened it, then put smaller rock down, flattened it, then put down blacktop millings and rolled it...then it would be just like a road base, wonderfully smooth, water resistant/tight. The county built the county road to my place using this technique.

Whatever you do, hope that your approach builds the right character in your kids!

Good advice - thank you.

 

[Diamondpilot]

This must be a local thing. I have a 280' long drive and got quotes for Concrete and it was about $28,000 last summer. I had it black topped for $7500. I did go ahead and had a 6" 40x15 concrete pad poured in front of the pole barn so I could jack stuff up, ect.

I had enough of the gravel after 10 years. I was spending $500 a year to maintain it the way I wanted and it was non stop.

By the way my asphalt job took them 3 days. They did 3" total. 2" of heavy base and 1" top coat. They spent a day with 3 guys grading using a BobCat, rakes, and a 10 ton roller. They then put down the asphalt over 1 1/2 days then the rest of the 3rd day they graded the dirt and cleaned up. It was 4,600 total SQ FT. I had another guy do the Concrete work and it was about $2500.

So in the end I spent $10,000 versus $28,000.

Here is the only pic I have of the new drive. I need to get more.


Chris

 

[texas42]

The best thing to do no matter what type of surface, is to get a good base down like others have described, drive on it a while to get it packed down and to reveal any soft spots.
Fix the soft spots and then regrade it smooth, water it and roll it.
Then you are ready to put down asphalt pavement or millings.
If you use millings spread and roll them the day you get them, especially if its hot. - Do Not let them set in a pile.
When doing your base remember to allow for the thickness of the pavement layer whether it will be Asphalt, Millings or Concrete.

 

[MMH]

The best thing to do no matter what type of surface, is to get a good base down like others have described, drive on it a while to get it packed down and to reveal any soft spots.
Fix the soft spots and then regrade it smooth, water it and roll it.

Can you compact it by driving on it or do you need a steam roller?

 

[Modn]

Not really a tractor operation question but thought that there were plenty of knowledgeable folks here that may offer me some advice. I have a gravel driveway & can live with that, but need to set up an area where the kids can play basketball.

At $115 per yd. of concrete & $20 per ton of gravel & putting down 4" of each, I can pour concrete for $2.55 sq.ft. The prices I see for asphalt are too close to what I can do concrete for for me to consider.

Money really tight for now. Are there any other alternatives? Thinking about putting down a / the bigger size stones & then coating the top layer w/ smaller stones/pea gravel. Would this work at all? Any other suggestions?

If you're going to drive on it, I would go 6". 4" isn't much when you have a 4000# vehicle on it....or if the UPS truck or fuel truck comes in it is that much worse.

I'm having the same problem. I have 600' with a sizable turn around and my father's driveway 20'x150'. Concrete is cheaper for me if I do the work which is no big deal, but with the salt used in the winter I wonder how the crete will hold up... Last time I checked the asphalt would be $20,000:confused2:

 

[Egon]

[QUOTE but with the salt used in the winter I wonder how the crete will hold up][/QUOTE]

Seal the concrete and all should be good.

Many towns that have Bus Transit Systems place concrete pads at the Bus Stops as they stand up better than asphalt.

Ot that used to be about 40 years ago!

 

[JCB]

Money really tight for now. Are there any other alternatives? Thinking about putting down a / the bigger size stones & then coating the top layer w/ smaller stones/pea gravel. Would this work at all? Any other suggestions?

NM,

There are some ideas here and at the end of the day you're really not gonna find a better alternative than asphalt or concrete. These products get used on roads because they work and they are cheap. If there was a better/cheaper way to go...it would be done.

You've really painted yourself in a corner with your needs. You can get a strong driveway cheaply by using some of the recycled materials and techniques mentioned above, but wanting a smooth surface to play basketball on really only leaves you with your original choices asphalt or concrete. Furthermore the fact that the surface is also gonna be open to your vehicles means you'll need the 4" concrete or 2" asphalt no matter what or else your vehicle traffic will tear up the surface regardless.

Joe

 

[EddieWalker]

NM,

There are some ideas here and at the end of the day you're really not gonna find a better alternative than asphalt or concrete. These products get used on roads because they work and they are cheap. If there was a better/cheaper way to go...it would be done.

You've really painted yourself in a corner with your needs. You can get a strong driveway cheaply by using some of the recycled materials and techniques mentioned above, but wanting a smooth surface to play basketball on really only leaves you with your original choices asphalt or concrete. Furthermore the fact that the surface is also gonna be open to your vehicles means you'll need the 4" concrete or 2" asphalt no matter what or else your vehicle traffic will tear up the surface regardless.

Joe

I agree with Joe. Trying to save money with another material of method is just going to leave you with an inferior product and something that will not work very well, or last very long. Usually it will either be abandoned because of it falling apart, or you will have to spend more money fixing or replacing it.

Do it right the first time and have it forever Cut corners and you will keep spending money on it forever.

Eddie