Amending Clay Soil - cheaply?

[LarryD]

Well I'm in the same boat but at the opposite end.

I'm on a mound of glacial till that passes water like a sieve. In fact, the hill I'm on is a "high recharge area" for the aquafer, according to the county. My biggest problem is the rocks that keep growing in my pastures.

I have busted the ground up with ripper teeth down on a box blade, picked rocks by hand, run a landscape rake to soften the contours, picked rocks by hand, run the tiller /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, picked rocks by hand. then spread well aged horse manure, tilled and picked a few more rocks by hand.

The process seems to be working well and I think the manure really helps in making a good layer for the grass to take hold. It seems to break up the sandy/gravely composition of the ground and help retain some moisture near the surface.

I would think if you tilled in a significant amount of manure it would loosen the soil up. Density is a relation between a given substance and the amount of voids. By tilling in manure, you introduce voids and therefore loosen the clay. Where that goes in a year or two is beyond me but I would think that it should produce a good layer of top soil.

I'll trade you truck load for truck load of glacial till for your clay... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rswyan]

I don't think I've seen this one mentioned in this thread yet (too lazy to recheck all the posts I've read over the last few days) ... one suggestion I heard a long time ago (and I've never tried myself although I thought it sounded good) is rock dust ... is supposedly to be real good as far as restoring mineral content to the soil ... although I'd imagine that would depend on the kind of rock that the dust came from. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you have a plant with a rock crusher anywhere near might be worth checking into.

 

[cisco]

Well, I've got too much sandy soil in a portion of my property - why don't we swap some clay for sand? Just kidding, WA is too far away.
Like many on this thread, I'm adding chipper/shredder debris, top soil from a pond digging site, manure from a local horse boarding place, and everything else organic I can get cheaply. I spread it around, and periodically rent a tiller (I'm going to have to buy one, no doubt) to mix it in, after the ripppers on my box blade cleared out larger tree roots and the like. I, maybe, now have 4 inches of reasonably decent stuff (1/2 sand and half whatever) on top of the sand. SOME DAY I'll get to planting a garden.

 

[have_blue]

If the original poster's clay is really hard and nasty, and the grade is not too high or steep, maybe he should consider topping the clay with a layer of coarse sand (for drainage) then a heavy layer of topsoil. That way you just bury and ignore the problem, which is what nature does anyway. No tilling, no treating, no worrying...just bury it and forget it. Out of sight, out of mind. A little more expensive in the short run, but cheaper and a lot less work in the long run. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[PBinWA]

More great input. The area is on a slight grade so over time the good soil will wash away. And in the NW we get lots of rain so it WILL wash away. I already lost a few yards of good soil I laid down last year so I know this will be an annual event. Fortunately, it will stay on my property and make the fields below full of nice dirt.

It's interesting that a lot of us in WA state have the same problem - but not surprising.

Thanks again for all the great feedback. I'll try to let everyone know how it goes.

 

[EddieWalker]

Dealing with clay soil was something new to me when I moved to TX. At first I thought I had to do all sorts of work to it in, but slowly realized that the grass types I considered bad in CA, were good here. Bermuda and St. Augustine are two examples. They both grow great in my red clay, need very little water and are green all spring, summer and fall. They do go dormant in winter when temps drop to freezing.

I also found out the clay holds water in it much longer then I thought possible. If you dig past the hard surface crust, you'll find its quite moist just a few inches down. Here, I've found that to be true after months of 90 plus degree temps with no rain at all.

The only amendment I'm familiar with that is "commonly" used in these parts is lime to cut down the acid level. Red clay his high acid levels, which is why we have so many pine trees.

My point is this; instead of fighting a battle with your soil, which is a losing battle at best, try to find out what will grow on it.

If standing water is an issue, improve your drainage. Otherwise, take advantage of what you already have.

Eddie

 

[Tom_H]

If all he wants to plant is the lawn he mentions, this could work well as long as the topsoil is deep enough. If, however, he wants to plant shrubs and trees, there is a potential major problem. When there are distinct layers of soil types, roots usually will not cross the interface. Virtually any gardening, horticulture, or soils management book you can find will tell you how important it is to rototill differing layers of soil types together to insure proper root growth. I have seen it many times; someone digs a hole in one type soil, plops in a rootball with a great potting mix, and waters. Even if you cut the rootball properly, the roots will not cross the interface. The plant grows large, but the roots go only to the interface. A few years later, the plant blows over in a storm because the root zone was so small. When various soil types are mixed so there is a gradual gradient of change, rather than an abrupt change, the roots will adapt and continue to grow. Done properly, your suggestion should work well for turf. If he wants to add shrubs and trees, he needs to dig out a planting hole two to three times the diameter of the rootball then mix the soil types such that there is a changing gradient from the potting mix in the rootball which becomes less loamy and more claylike as the distance increases from the rootball to the outer perimeter of the planting hole. The rootball should be cut to stimulate outward growth and the plant should sit a couple of inches higher than the surrounding ground.

 

[Highbeam]

My new plan is

1) grade to drain as much as possible. Curtain drains and slopes.

2) Try to establish pasture. Test area with seed and allow natural growth evrywhere else.

3) Amend the soil with something cheap and organic. I'm thinking a wood waste product will be available locally but would prefer composted manure. Till it in as deep as possible. Since we're tilling, add lime and fertilizer as needed and as affordable.

4) Try again with the grass after a year. I know clover favors the low nitrogen soil so maybe clover instead of grass.

We'll just have to see. Where I have smoothed the grey/blue heavy clay and provided slope and seed, the grass grows fairly well. Where the water ponds on top of the smoothed clay, the roots won't go down and the grass does not live. I think Eddie had the most applicable advice for pasture type growth.

 

[PBinWA]

I seeded an acre of pasture early this year with a seven seed pasture mix (clover, grass, and some legume). The soil is the same as what I am trying to put nice lawn in but the weather is going to be hotter and quicker to dry out in the next few months.

I'm going to use lots of horse poo and till it in and do my best to keep the ground wet while the lawn gets established.

If you till/plow and then seed in March and the weather conditions are right then you should have no problem with your pasture.

In general I think the grass will do well in my crappy soil once it is established. I just wanted to help it get established as quickly as possible and was curious to see what the collective TBN wisdom had to offer.

 

[PBinWA]

New related question.

Would anyone know if Douglas Fir Bark dust would be OK to till into the soil? I need to do some beauty bark around the place so maybe I'll just order a whole truck load and then till in any that's left over.

I just want to make sure that Douglas Fir Bark dust isn't going to interfere with the grass (perennial rye grass).

Thanks,

Paul