"American" Products

[Steave]

I see a maker's mark on the discs. They say Grizzly. As best I can tell, these are distributed by Agmate, which is in NC, but made in Brazil.

I can only imagine they're using who-knows steel and no material certs ever see the quality office. I've also got a fair amount of certainty that I know where that steel comes from, and it ain't Pennsylvania.

I'm not trying to back you into a spot or even question what you're saying mainly because I feel the same way about American Made products. When you bought the disc was it advertised as American made or were you just mislead to believe it was. If it was marked and advertised as all American made then to me that is criminal if they used parts from other places but if you were mislead to believe that is another buyer beware scenario.

Don't get me wrong I'm with you on this 100% and was just inquiring about some of the details.

 

[KWRB]

I'm not trying to back you into a spot or even question what you're saying mainly because I feel the same way about American Made products. When you bought the disc was it advertised as American made or were you just mislead to believe it was. If it was marked and advertised as all American made then to me that is criminal if they used parts from other places but if you were mislead to believe that is another buyer beware scenario.

Don't get me wrong I'm with you on this 100% and was just inquiring about some of the details.

They advertise being American, about every other breath. They put flags all over their product. I'm sure they're slick enough that they don't say "100% American made" our anything like that.

They have this, which is of course true, but very misleading:

"To insure quality, we have NO CHINA MADE Attachments on our Entire Website!!
"The bitterness of poor quality and lack of customer service lingers long after the sweetness of price is forgotten.""

 

[Gem99ultra]

If I buy a cheap Chinese or other foreign made tool, and it breaks injuring myself or others - can you fathom a guess of just how you would go to the manufacturer for compensation? No way, no how! I've bought too many Chinese made tools in the past that did break, and did injure myself. Examples - break-over bars, pliers, screwdrivers, spring compressors... No more, if there's an alternative.

I'm not pretending that a cheap American made tool will never break, but at least I know who and how to go to about discussing it. The current problem now though is that almost every product being made is a conglomeration of foreign and domestic parts. I can't think of a single automobile that is 100% made in America.

Mr. KWRB, you've certainly stirred up a firestorm here. And a worthwhile one for sure. As TbN members, we all need to consider how and where we spend our hard earned dollars. And your post certainly hits the problem right in the heart!

The production trend now is to abandon the manufacturing phrase and concentrate on the new technical and developmental side. And that's all fine and well, except that as soon as we sweat out a good quality product, we allow others to simply come in and steal the technology. We probably couldn't manufacture the product as cheaply as they will, with disgraceful labor rates, but we donate our brainpower to the hackers that simply get on their $50 laptop and steal our technology.

Of course, on the other side of the topic is just how much premium are we willing to pay for what we think is "Made in USA". I'll pay some, if I can afford it. No matter if it's a one-time use or a permanent toolbox addition. What I do take exception to is to pay the same price for what is purported to be "Made in USA" but is actually a conglomeration of domestic and foreign parts, and pay a premium "Made in USA" price.

Mr. KWRB, you've certainly posted a very good topic here. No doubt we all have our strong opinions, and I'll be watching with an open mind, hoping that I'm dead wrong. But at this point, I don't think so...

 

[SPYDERLK]

I don't even try to keep track of what is made where anymore. It's a global marketplace.

I am gonna buy what I feel is the best value period. And value is a function of quality vs cost. For something I plan on using once or twice, I don't need high quality long lasting, but rather a cheap price is more important. For other things, I am willing to pay more (within reason) for a quality product that will last.

If I need a specialty tool, say I can spend $20 for something that will last only a few uses, or $200 for something that will hold up to hundreds of uses......

While the more expensive tool seems like the better value, if I need it only once, is it really?

... Yeah, if it doesnt interrupt your job by failing midway. -- There is some risk gauging a cheap tool; and lots of gratification in getting it right.

There is the saying, "Good tools are cheap." It comes to my mind often in the demanding unconventional jobs where a quality tool comes through in the face of wincing stresses or "abuse". ... Or in the case of the IR 132 air hammer, great utility. - Power and controllability not available in any other of its size.

 

[LD1]

They advertise being American, about every other breath. They put flags all over their product. I'm sure they're slick enough that they don't say "100% American made" our anything like that.

They have this, which is of course true, but very misleading:

"To insure quality, we have NO CHINA MADE Attachments on our Entire Website!!
"The bitterness of poor quality and lack of customer service lingers long after the sweetness of price is forgotten.""

That pretty much removes all doubt about who you are talking about right there.

Have you contacted them and explained your concerns?

I am not gonna fault anyone for wanting an all american product, but it truly is a global economy. I have made many attachments myself in my garage. From trailer movers, root tippers, a potato plow, clamp on forks, wood hauling trailers, carry-alls, backhoe thumb, etc etc. While I dont build anything for to sell, I would certainly call all of my stuff american made. Made by me, right here in ohio, with either stuff I have purchased or have laying around. But to say that 100% of everything I use is / was made in america.......not sure I could do that.

I have no idea where the nuts and bolts I use come from other than my bolt bin. Which gets stocked from salvaged bolts from other equipment, napa, TSC, etc. Or when I get a load of scrap drops from some of the local steel shops.....no idea where it came from. Or the lift pins.....sometimes I buy the ones at TSC, sometimes I turn down a bolt on the lathe, sometimes I use old ones from a piece of equipment I am recycling.

Or even further.....what about the tools I use to build the "made in america" attachment. Some of my mill tooling is USA made, some korea, some So. Africa, etc. Should I only be using american tools to build and assemble? And only do that in a shop built by all american stuff?

How far are we willing to go? I am not trying to defend anyone or make light of the situation. Just pointing out that is is difficult if not impossible to find something that is 100% made in the usa, with 100% american stuff. At some point up or down the line, if you look hard enough, you will find some aspect that is not american. You feel you got duped, contact them and explain your concerns is the best advice anyone can offer you.

But aside from all that, is it a quality product? If it were stamped USA instead of CHINA would it be of any better quality? Sometimes, USA made stuff isnt the best the market has to offer.

 

[CCWKen]

... Or in the case of the IR 132 air hammer, great utility. - Power and controllability not available in any other of its size.

I wouldn't go that far and say that. I use an old riveter, made in USA, that has a 5X rating that I've used to set small aluminum and brass 1/8" rivets as well as 3/8" steel rivets. The control is phenomenal.

And sticking to the thread, would you feel the same about your tool if you opened it up and found parts stamped "Made in China"? Nowhere on the IR site do I see that the tools are made in USA. But they do take some pride in stating they are a Global engineering and manufacturing company.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I wouldn't go that far and say that. I use an old riveter, made in USA, that has a 5X rating that I've used to set small aluminum and brass 1/8" rivets as well as 3/8" steel rivets. The control is phenomenal.

And sticking to the thread, would you feel the same about your tool if you opened it up and found parts stamped "Made in China"? Nowhere on the IR site do I see that the tools are made in USA. But they do take some pride in stating they are a Global engineering and manufacturing company.

I would be interested in the form factor and operating characteristics of the riveter. What brand/model and is it still made?

,,,,I would of course prefer to get high Q American ... and 100%. But the foreign parts are getting into most everything. Both the IR132 and the ViseGrip are "old" American tools - once 100%. Now VG are assembled in China. Could be the same for IR. The VG has suffered subtlely for sure. -- I have no comparison on IR new/old. -- As far as I can tell they are both still the best tools available.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I always look for quality American made alternatives. Not often available at any price. In the past several years I bought an Aloris tool holder for my lathe which cost about 2x the Chinese clones. But the $ difference was about two tanks of gas in the pickup and I figured it is worth that to me to support an American manufacturer. Another example is the Patriot mulcher. The mechanism is made in the US and a couple hundred dollars more expensive than the box store alternatives. Worth it to me. I also check out eBay where good old American made tools can often be found although often at a premium over new imported versions. But for many things there is no alternative to Chinese made or Chinese components.