An Electric Lesson

[kubmech]

On that recycled electron thing, is that where dejavu comes from. Since it only happens sometimes, could it be that "your"
electrons have returned once again? What about other peoples electrons coming into your house, that's kinda icky./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
Come to think of it electrons are negative, so that means I always have negative energy in my house, Do you think if I offered to pay extra they could pump some protons through the line to kind of balance things out?/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Oh man, I just thought of something else, do you think those electrons ever get to return to their nucleas, kind of sad if they don't get to do that. I wonder if there's any activist groups that would be concerned about this?
Now I'm worried./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[Joe_W]

I think this whole thread only proves one thing. We all have way too much free time on our hands. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Joe W.

 

[ddl]

High frequency and static elec. does travel on conductors over the surface not through as DC does. the travelling over the suface is called skin effect.

 

[ddl]

I appreicate the lesson, but since I have been teaching this material on the college level for 16 years, I do have an idea of what is really going on in elec. It is easier to think of those two wires as energy levels, one wire has high enegry and the other low or zero energy. The power company raises the energy to a high level and the comsumer by using the energy returns it to a lower level. One must remember that enenrgy in equals energy out plus losses, so if the power company resold the returning energy, we would never run out of energy and Califirnia would not be dim.

Dan L

 

[cowboydoc]

Dan,
No need to be uppity about it. I get my information from my great uncle who is a master electrician and the vice president of Idaho Power Company. Like he said it's all theory anyway and you will get different interpretations of the same thing. I'll agree to disagree on the basic principle, although I think we said the same thing just in a different way. If you read my post I said that Joe's theory was flawed in that without the energy company producing energy to drive the flow of electricity there would be no electricity. However, if the energy were going out lower on the other end then downline of where you were they wouldn't get enough power. So the power has to be kept at a constant in the main line. When you turn on a switch in your house then you use power from the main line and the main line has to compensate by increasing power from the power company generators. So the power that returns on the return line isn't necessarily lower power at all. It's the same power but it's taking the path of least resistance. If you touch the return on a service panel you won't get shocked because the least resistance is going back to the power company return line and not through you. BUT there is just as much power on that return line as there was in the input line. According to my uncle anyway, you don't have a power drop. IF you had a power drop then the appliances downline would not run as efficiently as the ones upline. It's the same power in as out. The difference is how hard the generators at the plant have to work to keep the power at a constant flow so there is no drop in power. Anyway that's the way it works in Idaho.

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Dan,

<font color=blue>It is easier to think of those two wires as energy levels, one wire has high enegry and the other low or zero energy. The power company raises the energy to a high level and the comsumer by using the energy returns it to a lower level.</font color=blue>

I don't find this eaiser at all and the concept is basically flawed. Ever electron supplied by the power company is returned by some path back to the power company. If you substitute potential in place of energy in your explanation the concept comes a little closer.

Al

 

[JOR_EL]

<font color=blue>Static electricity travels on the skin called the skin effect.</font color=blue>

I can't explain it technically, but I've experienced a grin effect from some kind of humor-energy, while reading this thread.

I have never taught it (at any level), but I have been observing this phenomena for over 60 years, and have come to believe it results from some kind of funny-bone thing. Apparently actual striking of the bone isn't necessary, for the grin-effect, ...just an infusion of the ha-ha energy.

This energy is not to be trifled-with, however,...it can change your appearance quite dramatically! You could end up looking like THIS !! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Sometimes "progress" just demands courage and personal sacrifice (like me screwing-up my nerve to make these wild claims).

I wish this wasn't so hard to explain. I really think that if only someone else could experience this, then maybe people would stop saying I'm crazy, and scientists could study this for the benefit of mankind.

Or maybe some Miss America contestant could use this discovery to make the world a better place! /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

Larry

 

[DVerbarg]

Many of these posts on this topic mention that the power is returned (in a loop) to the power company.

The General Contractor who built my house told me that there is a hot and a common from the power company to my house. I told him that there is no wire going back to the power company but that the earth acts as the "common wire". He said "no, that's not the case." I challenged him to show me. He showed me the inside of the electrical panel and showed me the hot lead and the common lead. I then showed him that the "common" went to the grounding stake, not the power company. He then "couched" his statement that he was just restating what was told to him the electrician.

So my question is this, is the earth the return (or the common)? Or is this one great big conspiracy to sell us something that is free for the taking... or is this topic not relevant to anything remotely linked to tractors...

DaveV

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Dave,

The resistivity of the earth is far to high to return the current delivered to our homes. Older houses are feed with three wires newer ones with four. The ground rod is there for safety and path to ground for lightning. I'm sure if you look carefully at your house wiring you will find a minimum of three wires. Two (hot) which are @ ~110 volts with respect to the third wire (neutral). The voltage difference between the two hot wires is ~220 volts. The neutral wire provides the return current path for 110 volt connected loads and the unbalance, if any for 220 volt connected loads. The wire connected to the ground rod should have no current of consequence flowing in it. A Ground falult interrupter will trip if ~ 5 milliAmps flows in the ground wire. A 220 volt load, like an electric stove heater, would not return any current through the neutral wire.

Much older houses which had only 110 volts were two wire systems.

Hopes this helps.

Al

 

[cowboydoc]

Al's exactly right the ground rod is there to take up any shorts and return it to the ground. Again path of least resistance. For instance on my barn that I'm building we put a ground rod in 8' into the ground. This is a metal building and so if there was ever a short from one of the outlets it would in a sense electrify the whole building. This is why the theory of when you use electricity it is somehow less in the wires is flawed. The current from the short will electrify the whole building. IF I touch the building now the current will go through me to the ground. However, with the ground rod connected to the building the current will go to the grounding rod because it is of a path of least resistance.