An EV??????`

[Gale Hawkins]

I'm not sure of the model, but why would an EV be parked right next to a gas pump? It most likely was a gas filling mishap. Spilled gas? Smoking?

One theoretical risk I've read about was with self service gas. People would get out, start the pump, then climb back into their car to wait for it to fill, then get out and get hit with static electricity.

I did have a Blazer fire (good name?) I hadn't driven it for several years, then was doing some heavy towing. Anyway, I had a hole that was burnt in the top of the muffler that then burnt up through the floor of the Blazer and into the passenger compartment. Fortunately I was able to save it, and even drive it home. As I knew I had severe problems, I pulled off at a freeway exit. There was a gas station ahead which I knew should have help, but ultimately decided that they didn't want a flaming car at the station.

Maybe the owner had an attachment to the gas station model.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

It also denotes a feeling the quoter has that is read-into your post.


The mandates are part of the reason we are forced into limited choices. Those choices have a lot of Chinese made components and geo-political implications in them. It’s pretty clear ICE vehicles have traditionally had more US made components in them. Yes, i know about Tesla, but they are at prices unreachable by most.



No, I don’t have a high opinion of them.



See, I think being dependent upon China for everything is a miserable and a very dangerous existence.


But you choose, bro. You do you, I’ll do me.

I choose a Pro-America agenda. Choice? Of course. Mandates? Never.

I went pro-american on my second new car, the model y because my first new car was 1973 Datsun 1200 because it was better than a pinto or Vega but mainly it was $2150 new out the door.

 

[CliffordK]

I read some place that it would take 8 years to
install 15,000 stations a year to meet the demand
for ev's

willy

Ok, so there are about 160,000 standard gas stations across the USA.

Access to alternative transportation fuel stations varies across the lower 48 states - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

If EV sales goes wild, some of those gas stations will undoubtedly also try to install EV charging.

Even if it takes 2x or 3x as long to charge an EV, as refilling a gas guzzler, the number of stations will be vastly reduced. Over 90% of the recharging will be done at home, with that remaining 10% for people doing long drives. And as ranges are expanded, that number goes down quite a bit. What proportion of the average American's trips are in excess of say 300 miles total?

Part of the question will be whether we eventually settle on cars like the Fiat 500 and Chevy Spark that had around a 100 mile range, OK for commuting, but horrendous for road trips (especially if they didn't supercharge). They are cheap. Or, will we tend towards vehicles with around a 400 mile range, which will be good for even moderate road trips?

There is some level of convenience. So having a charger where it is needed. When doing road trips, I do much of my refilling at truck stops. Pilot, Loves, Maverick, etc. Rarely do I venture to the small town stations.

I haven't been to a supercharger yet, but I do anticipate chargers to be installed at restaurants, and motels that cater to travelers.

Ok, you can keep repeating the same thing but it doesn’t make it correct. Also, you know 240v is different than 250 AMPS right? I have 100 amp service, I would have to have another line run from the road and my entire panel replaced. I’ll give you the number for my fleet company and you can talk to them, apparently you know better than they do.

250 Amp isn't common in the USA. People have been installing 200 Amp for the last 50 years or so, and in some cases 2 x 200 Amp for 400 Amp.

I've been recharging my Azure (Ford) Transit Connect using 110V, 10 Amps or so. Any old extension cord will do, but it takes about 2 days to recharge from a deep discharge.

I can't hardly see it as a blip on my electric bill.

Going to 220V, 30 Amps or so would make a huge difference, and would recharge 6x as fast, so I could do a full recharge overnight.

I don't know if you could swing 30 Amps on your 100 Amp panel. It might be pushing it.

I've got a 28 kWh battery pack on my Transit Connect, and don't like to drop it below 1/4 charge.

The Chevy Hummer has a 205 kWh battery pack. The Silverado EV also has up to a 200 kWh pack. So, it could take over a week to recharge at 110V with a deep discharge. But, only a day or so at 220V, 30A or so.

However, you don't necessarily have to start every day with a full to empty discharge, and recharge. If you are only going 50 miles on a 400 mile battery pack, then recharge some, but you'd be fine with going back out on occasion with a 50% charge.

Now back to your 100 amp panel. There are now smarter chargers.

Your big residential power consumption will be with:
Electric Stove, Electric Hot Water, Electric Heaters, Electric Clothes Dryer. You probably are using Natural Gas for some of those. Nonetheless, there will be a time of the night where your power consumption will be minimized. Even with house heat, a smart thermostat would allow you to say set it to 60 degrees at night and 70 degrees in the morning if that is your preference.

So, set your car to charge from midnight to 6 AM. And you may well be fine as long as you don't go bonkers with the charger capacity.

If you have a fixed location where you're working, they could also install chargers for the employees.

 

[kozal01]

Ok, so there are about 160,000 standard gas stations across the USA.

Access to alternative transportation fuel stations varies across the lower 48 states - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

If EV sales goes wild, some of those gas stations will undoubtedly also try to install EV charging.

Even if it takes 2x or 3x as long to charge an EV, as refilling a gas guzzler, the number of stations will be vastly reduced. Over 90% of the recharging will be done at home, with that remaining 10% for people doing long drives. And as ranges are expanded, that number goes down quite a bit. What proportion of the average American's trips are in excess of say 300 miles total?

Part of the question will be whether we eventually settle on cars like the Fiat 500 and Chevy Spark that had around a 100 mile range, OK for commuting, but horrendous for road trips (especially if they didn't supercharge). They are cheap. Or, will we tend towards vehicles with around a 400 mile range, which will be good for even moderate road trips?

There is some level of convenience. So having a charger where it is needed. When doing road trips, I do much of my refilling at truck stops. Pilot, Loves, Maverick, etc. Rarely do I venture to the small town stations.

I haven't been to a supercharger yet, but I do anticipate chargers to be installed at restaurants, and motels that cater to travelers.


250 Amp isn't common in the USA. People have been installing 200 Amp for the last 50 years or so, and in some cases 2 x 200 Amp for 400 Amp.

I've been recharging my Azure (Ford) Transit Connect using 110V, 10 Amps or so. Any old extension cord will do, but it takes about 2 days to recharge from a deep discharge.

I can't hardly see it as a blip on my electric bill.

Going to 220V, 30 Amps or so would make a huge difference, and would recharge 6x as fast, so I could do a full recharge overnight.

I don't know if you could swing 30 Amps on your 100 Amp panel. It might be pushing it.

I've got a 28 kWh battery pack on my Transit Connect, and don't like to drop it below 1/4 charge.

The Chevy Hummer has a 205 kWh battery pack. The Silverado EV also has up to a 200 kWh pack. So, it could take over a week to recharge at 110V with a deep discharge. But, only a day or so at 220V, 30A or so.

However, you don't necessarily have to start every day with a full to empty discharge, and recharge. If you are only going 50 miles on a 400 mile battery pack, then recharge some, but you'd be fine with going back out on occasion with a 50% charge.

Now back to your 100 amp panel. There are now smarter chargers.

Your big residential power consumption will be with:
Electric Stove, Electric Hot Water, Electric Heaters, Electric Clothes Dryer. You probably are using Natural Gas for some of those. Nonetheless, there will be a time of the night where your power consumption will be minimized. Even with house heat, a smart thermostat would allow you to say set it to 60 degrees at night and 70 degrees in the morning if that is your preference.

So, set your car to charge from midnight to 6 AM. And you may well be fine as long as you don't go bonkers with the charger capacity.

If you have a fixed location where you're working, they could also install chargers for the employees.

I know if I wanted to I could install a charger myself if I had an EV, but since the fleet company was supplying the car as well as the home charger they had their requirements and that was that. My office is my home and I travel the entire northern half of Michigan so there would have been no charging stations to use “at work” I mapped out some of my longest routes and determined in ideal conditions I would have to charge at least once, in the winter more for just one day of driving. It would not have worked out even if I could quick charge at home

 

[ultrarunner]

It’s already an issue in big swaths of the older city residential neighborhoods.

The utility just doesn’t have the capacity to upgrade the single family 1250 square feet 3 bedroom homes.

Originally all wired 120v 30amp service and many still are including a home I own.

Those that upgraded may have 240v 60amp cartridge mains and even a few 240v 100amp when homes are enlarged.

I found 120v 30amp totally adequate because gravity gas central furnace, gas dryer, gas cooking, gas water heater…

The high end homes of 50 years ago of 2500-3000 square feet have 125 amp services.

When gas is available and no one has central A/C the need for larger 150 and 200 amp services are very rare.

Part of the backlog is shortage of transformers.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

How to sell EVS to people who hate them is kind of a funny presentation and actually a lot of Truth in it.

 

[CliffordK]

What is the cost of installing a new 200A service (or larger)?

I'm seeing estimates of $1000 to $2000 or so.

That is just a drop in the bucket for the price of a new car, and if you're spending $50 to $100 for fuel a day, then it would pay for itself in no time.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

It’s already an issue in big swaths of the older city residential neighborhoods.

The utility just doesn’t have the capacity to upgrade the single family 1250 square feet 3 bedroom homes.

Originally all wired 120v 30amp service and many still are including a home I own.

Those that upgraded may have 240v 60amp cartridge mains and even a few 240v 100amp when homes are enlarged.

I found 120v 30amp totally adequate because gravity gas central furnace, gas dryer, gas cooking, gas water heater…

The high end homes of 50 years ago of 2500-3000 square feet have 125 amp services.

When gas is available and no one has central A/C the need for larger 150 and 200 amp services are very rare.

Part of the backlog is shortage of transformers.

Locally houses built after WW2 in the '40s and '50s got 60 to 100 amp fuse boxes.

 

[ultrarunner]

What is the cost of installing a new 200A service (or larger)?

I'm seeing estimates of $1000 to $2000 or so.

That is just a drop in the bucket for the price of a new car, and if you're spending $50 to $100 for fuel a day, then it would pay for itself in no time.

$50 my weekly fuel expense up from $40.

It's not the dollar amount for panel and weatherhead, conductors, etc.. Ive done plenty of them with permits.

It's the up to 1 year lead time for the utility to make the connection...

 

[ultrarunner]

Po

Locally houses built after WW2 in the '40s and '50s got 60 to 100 amp fuse boxes.

Post WWII new single family 60amp standard through the 1960's SF East Bay.