Annual coolant change.

[prs]

Not meaning to complain too much, just thinking out loud and besides, there has been little activity here to discuss of late.

The manual that came with my 4500Z and the several since then revisions on line call for an annual drain/flush/ and refill of coolant. Mine was delivered to me with the "pink" Asian spec coolant with is the Toyota dye color for super long life silicate free, boron free, and phosphate added organic acid coolant. In automobiles, that "good stuff" is rated for 5 years or well over 100,000 miles service. Other colors of the same product are available for other manufacturer's color match, but the coolant type is the same. Since I still have two years warranty, I will follow "the book" and keep track of the service, but I am not so sure I will do so post warranty. Using a post drain flush agent (usually citric acid) and then flushing again with deionized/distilled water also seems to be overkill if changing coolant when the "old" is still so fresh with its cleaning and anti-corrosion agents. Further, in the far north one might be slightly diluting the new 50:50 coolant due to residual distilled water remaining in the system even though we have no heater core which is often the reservoir for such trapped H2O. Any way, I have Honda Blue super long life and a citric acid flush agent ready to use as my anniversary approaches.

prs

 

[Gary Fowler]

I don't know that I would do a citric acid flush each year nor would I change the coolant. I would change once, flushing out the old factory stuff with plain water till the water runs clear, then drain and install a good Prestone brand equivalent to what you need (Orange or yellow color) then run it for 5 years. There is no reason to change coolant every year on any engine. They are basically all the same, either cast iron block or aluminum block so get the right coolant type in it and forget it for 5 years.

 

[ovrszd]

X2....

 

[cat fever]

X3
and I would add, when flushing with water use soft water or RO water if available.

 

[murphy1244]

The manual also calls for changing your hydraulic filters yearly. My book just notes service cooling system.

 

[ovrszd]

Nice Avatar Murph.

 

[murphy1244]

Nice Avatar Murph.

Its supposed to be Spring so I'm trying to think Green but its still snowing outside.

 

[Fawken]

Never done it. Not for cars, tractors or motorbikes even. If there's something wrong with it like a water pump bearing or a bad head gasket I could see flushing and changing coolant, but you'd need to do that anyway to fix said problems. Never changed the ATF on the 4 service vans I've owned either. Chevy, Chevy, GMC, & Dodge and never had a transmission issue with the respective ownership mileages of 249,000 mi, 376,000 mi, 216,000 mi, & 197,000 miles on the Dodge which is still in service.

 

[prs]

Murphy, the manual also explains what service the cooling system involves as opposed to checking the cooling system which is an everyday of use thing. It is overkill for sure.

The hydraulic oil filter changes are to occur at 100 hours, 500 hours, and then every 1,500 your thereafter as I interpret the rather ambiguous chart. This going by the later revisions of the owner's manual and the one that came with yours and mine are less demanding of filter changes.

prs

 

[murphy1244]

Murphy, the manual also explains what service the cooling system involves as opposed to checking the cooling system which is an everyday of use thing. It is overkill for sure.

The hydraulic oil filter changes are to occur at 100 hours, 500 hours, and then every 1,500 your thereafter as I interpret the rather ambiguous chart. This going by the later revisions of the owner's manual and the one that came with yours and mine are less demanding of filter changes.

prs

Mine calls for every 1000 hours or yearly. WTF is that? Why not just check all the boxs yearly.

 

[Raw Dodge]

I don't know that I would do a citric acid flush each year nor would I change the coolant. I would change once, flushing out the old factory stuff with plain water till the water runs clear, then drain and install a good Prestone brand equivalent to what you need (Orange or yellow color) then run it for 5 years. There is no reason to change coolant every year on any engine. They are basically all the same, either cast iron block or aluminum block so get the right coolant type in it and forget it for 5 years.

5 years is not often enough,annually is a waste of coolant,and money. 2-3 seasons and I use all makes and models in everything .full strength and mix it 50/50 with distilled water...get it on sale for 10.00-11.00 a gallon,and it's 1.00 for a gallon or distilled water,ends up about 5.50-6.00 a gallon ready to use...

 

[RalphVa]

I just changed the coolant on my 2005 Tacoma. Supposed to be every 10 years or 100k miles. That's what I plan to do on my diesel generator: 10 years (that or 1,000 hours; won't make that in my lifetime).

Used to change coolant in the 1983 Benz every other year for 25 years and in my 1st JD tractor. No longer. Gonna go the 1,000 hours or 10 years.

Have NEVER EVER done a flush and don't recommend it. On the Tacoma, they say the capacity is 2.5 gallons. Struggled to get 2 gallons into it. Somewhere, there's 0.5 gallon of old coolant, and I opened the heater up full. So, I would not want 0.5 gallon of flush material to stay in there.

Unless you have a cylinder head leak into the coolant, I don't see how it can possibly go bad. Yeah, after 10 years, there may be enough stuff to leach out from the metal to change it. Even on the Benz and the generator that did not come with an overflow container, I put one on the overflows. Keeps air out. That's important.

Ralph

 

[Gary Fowler]

5 years is not often enough,annually is a waste of coolant,and money. 2-3 seasons and I use all makes and models in everything .full strength and mix it 50/50 with distilled water...get it on sale for 10.00-11.00 a gallon,and it's 1.00 for a gallon or distilled water,ends up about 5.50-6.00 a gallon ready to use...

I don't agree to waste money on changing coolant or oil when the manufacturer says it is good for 5 or 10 years, why change it at 3. I guess it is the same reason millions of oil is wasted each year on 3000 mile oil changes which is a carryover from 1950's era and the desire for oil change establishments to garner bigger take of your money. If OEM says to change it at XXXX that is what I do. They are not going to jeopardize their warranty on something like that. 50 years ago, 3 years or even less might have been a good time limit but improvement have been made that don't require frequent coolant changes with many being good for 100K miles or 10 years.
I can remember that 40 years ago, coolant would start to rust up in a couple years and need to be changed, but todays coolant doesn't. Same with oil from 40+ years ago, not good for much over 3000 miles but much of todays oils will go minimum of 7500 and most will go 10,000 or more without break down.

 

[orezok]

The main reason for the short coolant replacement schedule is corrosion. BUT, you can test your coolant with a VOM. Put one probe in the coolant at the radiator, touch the other to the negative battery terminal. If the voltage is less than .4 volts, the coolant is still doing it's corrosion resistance. No need to change.

 

[prs]

GarIy Fowler stated logically: "If OEM says to change it at XXXX that is what I do. They are not going to jeopardize their warranty on something like that." In this case, the equipment manufacturer says to change annually and to use a flush agent and to flush the system until clear. I agree this is a waste of resources and time.

prs

 

[Raw Dodge]

I don't agree to waste money on changing coolant or oil when the manufacturer says it is good for 5 or 10 years, why change it at 3. I guess it is the same reason millions of oil is wasted each year on 3000 mile oil changes which is a carryover from 1950's era and the desire for oil change establishments to garner bigger take of your money. If OEM says to change it at XXXX that is what I do. They are not going to jeopardize their warranty on something like that. 50 years ago, 3 years or even less might have been a good time limit but improvement have been made that don't require frequent coolant changes with many being good for 100K miles or 10 years. I can remember that 40 years ago, coolant would start to rust up in a couple years and need to be changed, but todays coolant doesn't. Same with oil from 40+ years ago, not good for much over 3000 miles but much of todays oils will go minimum of 7500 and most will go 10,000 or more without break down.

The question was in reference to a ventrac which has a 1 year coolant change recommendation. It isn't neccesary to go off on a tangent with the stats on wasted oil and coolant, you don't need to scold me,I'm trying to help the OP,I've been a full time equipment mechanic over 30.years,and this is what works for me.

 

[prs]

Raw Dodge is giving good advice, but..........

The equipment manufacturer, Ventrac, seems to recommend very short service intervals as if they believe their machine is under severe service routinely. For example, the engine manufacturer, Kubota, recommends motor oil and filter changes at 200 hours of service where Ventrac states 50 hours. Kubota specifies coolant changes every other year, Ventrac, as I noted in my OP specifies annual coolant changes with flush. (Kubota does not mention flush agent or flush). The equipment is under Ventrac's consumer warranty. I will follow the Ventrac specification for those 3 years.

So, I drained the radiator while the engine was very warm. The approx 6+ quarts of Asian "Pink" (Toyota?) coolant was pristine clean and clear in the waste bucket. There was, by inference, about 3 pints of "old" coolant in the engine block and plumbing. I installed the flush agent and distilled water before operating to full temp. Let it cool to ambient temp and installed the flush fixture to the radiator and flushed with tap water with engine at idle and circulating. The flush was clear and clean from the beginning, it did NOT need a flush. After a thorough "flush" with tap water the system was filled with distilled water and run briefly to operational temp, allowed to cool to very warm and drained again, the water again clean and clear. When cool, added a gallon of Prestone yellow :blends with anything type of silicate free coolant" and topped-up with distilled water; this step to prevent dilution of the final coolant due to retained water in block and plumbing. Ran the machine as I mowed a field. Let cool to very warm and drained nice clean yellow coolant mix. When cool, I added new Asian type super long life pre-mix coolant (Honda Blue, same as Toyota Pink). What a waste of time, coolant, flush agent, distilled water, and $. But, I followed the Ventrac directive. When the warranty is out, I will service the cooling system when the coolant tests less than new, of at 3 years and NO flush. And even at that the procedure will be somewhat wasteful.

If you are not quite as nutty as I, you could get by with less time and work by using pure antifreeze instead of 50:50 and then topping up with distilled water. But I decided to use the top quality Asian type coolant as was in the new machine, but could not find any other than premix. I had the Prestone yellow on my shelf for years, so "used" it to correct the trapped water to 50:50.

prs

 

[Raw Dodge]

Raw Dodge is giving good advice, but.......... The equipment manufacturer, Ventrac, seems to recommend very short service intervals as if they believe their machine is under severe service routinely. For example, the engine manufacturer, Kubota, recommends motor oil and filter changes at 200 hours of service where Ventrac states 50 hours. Kubota specifies coolant changes every other year, Ventrac, as I noted in my OP specifies annual coolant changes with flush. (Kubota does not mention flush agent or flush). The equipment is under Ventrac's consumer warranty. I will follow the Ventrac specification for those 3 years. So, I drained the radiator while the engine was very warm. The approx 6+ quarts of Asian "Pink" (Toyota?) coolant was pristine clean and clear in the waste bucket. There was, by inference, about 3 pints of "old" coolant in the engine block and plumbing. I installed the flush agent and distilled water before operating to full temp. Let it cool to ambient temp and installed the flush fixture to the radiator and flushed with tap water with engine at idle and circulating. The flush was clear and clean from the beginning, it did NOT need a flush. After a thorough "flush" with tap water the system was filled with distilled water and run briefly to operational temp, allowed to cool to very warm and drained again, the water again clean and clear. When cool, added a gallon of Prestone yellow :blends with anything type of silicate free coolant" and topped-up with distilled water; this step to prevent dilution of the final coolant due to retained water in block and plumbing. Ran the machine as I mowed a field. Let cool to very warm and drained nice clean yellow coolant mix. When cool, I added new Asian type super long life pre-mix coolant (Honda Blue, same as Toyota Pink). What a waste of time, coolant, flush agent, distilled water, and $. But, I followed the Ventrac directive. When the warranty is out, I will service the cooling system when the coolant tests less than new, of at 3 years and NO flush. And even at that the procedure will be somewhat wasteful. If you are not quite as nutty as I, you could get by with less time and work by using pure antifreeze instead of 50:50 and then topping up with distilled water. But I decided to use the top quality Asian type coolant as was in the new machine, but could not find any other than premix. I had the Prestone yellow on my shelf for years, so "used" it to correct the trapped water to 50:50. prs

Ventrac is being rediculous, with regard to both coolant and oil change intervals.If that engine is working so hard it needs a 50 hr oil change,they have the wrong engine,liquid cooled engines today should go an absolute minimum of 100 hrs on today's oil. Of course it's your machine,do as you wish,I personally would ingore there recommendation,as they do not make the engine,and the application should be set so the engine is within its designed parameters,as designed by kubota .id service it after the initial 20 hrs then every 100 after on the oil. They are negating the benefits of running a liquid cooled engine,it's supposed to be cheaper to operate via longer service intervals.but a Kohler air cooled command engine will go 100-150 hrs between oil changes , usually service those at 60-75 hrs especially in the hot months.

 

[prs]

I made error; on models P, Y, and Z the oil and filter changes are 100 hours after break-in. Only K is 50 hours. I would edit, but that seems to not be possible here.

prs