another hiccup to going solar?

[ning]

I'll assume the questions are in good faith...

If the solar is generating power as needed why do you have battery/generator backup?

Without a battery or generator backup, the solar can't be used to establish a grid because it can't be relied on to react nearly instantaneously to new loads.
I can have AC running completely off of solar - no draw on the batteries - but at the moment that the AC actually turned on, the solar was likely only producing 1kW base loads for the house, so when the AC turned on, it probably pulled from the battery briefly and then was "turned up" by the inverters to meet the load (obviously this only works if there's sufficient sun).

There is nothing cute about it.
AGAIN, without violating NEC standards, what amount of power does a grid tied system generate when the grid goes down? just under 2 kw max? Which is only useable on a completely separate circuit (ie extension cord) or to feed a Tesla Powerwall, Enphase IQ, etc…(extra 10k ++) just enough to run one refrigerator and a couple of lights.
Im happy you and others think this is a magic pill.

This is merely another (government incentive) distraction. Why isn’t geothermal HVAC more subsidized, a large percentage of your energy use is allocated for your comfort (heat, ac, domestic hw)? Wave power, where’d it go? Remember when solar water heaters were the rage? Remember when propane/NG was the countries saving grace? Auto manufacturers pushed mass transit aside, now we want more mass transit. The list goes on and history will repeat itself, again.

(Ok, my assumption was probably wrong.)

There's no violation of NEC standards. My grid-tied system can produce 7.68kW, and I've seen it as high as 7kW myself, when the grid does go down.
If the grid is down after solar hours though I typically turn off all of the unnecessary draws so that the battery will last longer, in case the grid stays down for a while (especially in the wintertime, when solar is crap if it's iffy weather).

 

[ddbackhoe]

I'm starting to think you're being obtuse on purpose. I'm going to answer this one and see.

I get it, you jumped in, dont like my responses and I’m the problem

 

[ning]

It costs more than the usual whole house generator run off a propane tank. But our neighbors who had those both ran out of propane during the outages this winter. Propane trucks can't deliver when the road is closed, which is not infrequent here. If you're in a place with a lot of outages and can afford it, solar + batteries + small generator is the way to go with the current state of technology.

I have plans to install a generator for this precise reason - grid failures here happen for two reasons, fire, or winter storms. Fire-related outages usually happen during decent solar weather (Sept/Oct seem the common though the utility has been doing so much work on the lines for the moment after literally killing a nearby town with their negligence so they're not having to preemptively shut off power as much); winter storms happen when there's pretty much zero solar production, even with a lack of snowfall you often get maybe 1kWh/day out of a system on a very dark overcast day (I was surprised to see so much solar in VT, is it really that sunny in VT? - not when I was there!).

There were people nearby whose 250 gallon propane tanks got emptied in under a week during a 2+ week outage here in Jan'22 because their whole-house backup generators run 24/7 if only to provide 1-2kW of basic power to the house for the standby TV, USB chargers etc and fridge. A gasoline or propane generator running at idle still uses a surprising amount of fuel! And yeah, the didn't get refilled for over a month.

I've computed that with a spare 250g propane tank I've got here (we swapped to 1000g long ago, fill up once a year), using it to top up the batteries with judicious use of power in the house (no hot tub, reasonable amount of lights, no electric tea kettle, use the kitchen stove for that [propane, other tank system]) I would be able to go 30 days with zero solar recharge. Thirty days without any solar production is possible, but typically we have at least a partly sunny day here or there even in mid-winter and many overcast days you'll still get at least some production.

The reason that scheme works well is that the gas powered generators are the most efficient near their full output (definitely not near idle), so by sizing the generator to be able to run the most efficiently when pushing max charge at the batteries (plus enough for baseline+ house use) you get the most out of the fuel.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

This is comical.

Is your house insulated?

Mine is. Cost money. Saves money.

Without me writing a lengthy diatribe of course spending money WISELY saves money. Our electric bill averages $100/month. Spending $30+K solar panels & batteries to save that $1,200/year is penny wise pound foolish.
My power company pays for their equipment and I don't have to tend panels and batteries.
Go ahead and dissect what I said.

 

[ultrarunner]

Not a criticism at all and why running your individual numbers for your situation is so important.

Paying 12 cents a kW vs say 36 cents in my area once the city taxes and fees added opens options and that is not taking into account all the various credits and incentives offfered.

Should the numbers be favorable one needs to identify if a suitable site exists and if average sunshine provides a payoff.

Lots of variables to be sure and that is not getting into the use of solar has kept expensive peaker plants idle during the heat of the summer where utilities already have capacity issues.

My falling into my situation at no cost and meeting all my electric needs plus getting my annual true-up check this year for $360 puts a smile on my face and makes me more aware of my energy budget.

A few neighbors have no cost fantastic Solar even including new roof sections with a 20 year contract to buy kW at a certain fixed price has work very well. Maybe just timing and luck but still a great deal for them paying 2015 rates going forward at zero cost to them.

 

[ponytug]

While not all grid-tied solar systems can produce power without the grid, many of the more recent ones can.

Batteries can be helpful for shifted solar power to other times of day, either because of time of use billing, or because of outages.

I agree with @ultrarunner that the devil is in the details for whether or not installing solar with or without batteries pencils out for any given owner.

There was a time when I happily pulled out the kerosene lamp and candles when the power went out. Our current living arrangements necessitate having power. Such is life. Personally, I love not having to haul out the generator when the power goes out, but it is still around for those winter storms that can grind down the solar power production to almost nothing.

All the best,

Peter

 

[bnold]

Without me writing a lengthy diatribe of course spending money WISELY saves money. Our electric bill averages $100/month. Spending $30+K solar panels & batteries to save that $1,200/year is penny wise pound foolish.
My power company pays for their equipment and I don't have to tend panels and batteries.
Go ahead and dissect what I said.

Good for you.


My electric bill would have been around $671 last month @ 19.4c/kWh after fees.

A $20k investment with ~5yr straight line ROI works for me.

No batteries, no need.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Glad you're happy. I know I am!

 

[ultrarunner]

Good for you.


My electric bill would have been around $671 last month @ 19.4c/kWh after fees.

A $20k investment with ~5yr straight line ROI works for me.

No batteries, no need.

I think this is one reason Solar is popular here… the very high cost of electricity in California with dozens of fees/taxes.

Although the actual cost of production seems to be ok compared to transportation, etc.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Friend lives there. The HMO wouldn't allow him to install panels on his house he paid for. I said one word..."MOVE"!