Another JD 4700 Owner!

[gvw]

Dan - my 4700 finally came in but my actually owning it may be another issue as the salesman that I did the deal with has left the Dealership. I'm quite honestly kinda fryed about the whole thing as I saw him late last week and he didn't even mention that he was leaving. Today I visited the dealer to see how the parts and parts are going together and find out that the dude that I did the deal with is history. Owner of the dealership feels that we can complete the deal but tomorrow will decide that.
My question for you is - did your dealer reverse your rear tires as part of the backhoe installation. When I was standing there looking at my almost new tractor - noted that the wheels had been reversed - I was advised that this was part of the protocal for the backhoe install in order to get a wider rear stance. By the way this reversed position will definately allow clearance for chains as the wheels are completely our from under the fenders. The tires in the "reversed" position definately does widen the stance - 84" - I think - not sure as I was a bit out in left field due to the missing salesman.
Also - did you add wheel weights to you rig? and what size if you did?
HAPPY NU YEAR!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

GVW,

Bummer about your salesman...hope things smooth-out ok.

Some tire/wheel thoughts:
If you can get the owner's manual from your dealer, all the possible tire/wheel arrangements are described on p.73/74.

Measurements are given for "tread width' in each of 8 positions (rear tires).

This is centerline to centerline. I f you add half the width of the tires you are using to each side (one whole tire-width in total) to the "tread width", you will have the outside width.

You may want to consider that with some wide tires, position 1 ( the 'reverse" of position 8) cannot be used, because of insufficient clearance between the inside of the tire and the tractor. This means you can ONLY use the wide position.

If you mount the tires in the widest position that WILL PERMIT the reversal of the tires, you will have a wide, AND a narrow wheel-setting achievable simply for moving the tires to opposite sides of the tractor.

So "wide" for loader or hillside stability..."narrow" for staying inside your attatchment width, or working between row-crops etc.

The (+/-) 85" setting is, I believe, 2 settings short(position 6) of MAX (MAX is achieved by changing the wheelweb/rim mounting). This is if you have R4 tires.

Clearance for chains will add another element to consider when choosing wheel settings.

HTH,

Larry

 

[dmccarty]

GVW,

I'm not sure if the salesman leaving is a good or bad thing. I met a salesman years ago when I first started looking at tractors. When we started tractor shoping after we bought our current property I went back to see this man and it turned out he was leaving at the end of the week to start up a chicken farm. I talked to another salesman at a Kubota/NH dealership who had just left a MF sales position. Both were good guys. Having said that I don't think I would have been happy if the guy I had been dealing from left in the middle of the deal.

I bought a 6 foot wide rotary cutter to cover the rear of the tractor. I have not measured the actual width of the tractor and I have only had the cutter on once since I have very little to mow presently, but it sure seem like my tractor width is 6 feet. My box blade was 7 feet wide and seems to have six inches outside of each rear tire.

I have R1 Ag tires and of course I can't remember their size. 8-(

I can tell you this. The centerline of the rear tires lines up with the outside of the rear fender. In other words, half the tire is under the fender and the other is not.

I can't say if this is the correct setup or not. Mine could be messed up and yours could be correct.

I have not looked into widening the stance of the rear tires at all since it is not something I would do. I would like a wider stance for stability but I need a somewhat narrow stance for getting into the woods and my current setup seems like a good balance.

I don't remember the backhoe manual specifing the rear tire setup but I was not looking for that information when I was reading that book. I will look this evening and see if I can find any information.

I did not add wheel wieghts. The back tires were filled with methanol. I would like to add some wieght I just have not had the time or money. Some of my stumps require much more traction than I have with the current setup.

The one "bad" thing about the JD backhoe tractor mount is that putting on the lower 3PH arms is a tight fit. You have to get a slight angle on the arm links to get them on the pins. You have to get it just right. Once you figure out the angle, after much fussing and cussing, its easy. Like so many things, once you know how to do it, its easy.

Hope this helps.
Dan McCarty

 

[dmccarty]

GVW,

I'm at home looking at the manuals for the 4700 and the 48 BH.

The backhoe manual has two statements I could find regarding tires. One page 4 it states, "5. Mount rear wheels in widest tread width position." On page 42, there is a section for 4500 and 4600 tractors. 4700's are not covered in my manual. On that page there is a statement, "NOTE: Removing rear tires is not required but makes installation and torquing of hardware easier." A few lines later, "2. Remove rear tires(see note above)."

So I'm not sure what/who to believe.

Looking on pages 73-74 of the 4700 manual just confuses me further. I sure wish I could walk outside and look at the tractor. I know my reartire stems are on the inside of the tractor. Page 73 says, "WIDE POSITION - Install wheel with valve stem to the inside."
But on the chart for my tire size(16.9-24) on page 74, Position 7 would give me a width of 71 inches. Position 8 would be 75 inches.

I guess I'll just have to measure the tractor.

The next date the tractor and I have is set for Friday unless work causes an interuptus.



TBN has me doing lots of tests on my tractor this weekend. I have to measure the width, check the wheel/rim position, FEL dump/curl operation, speed of dump/curl at different RPM, speed of open/close on the 4n1 at different RPM and something else I'm sure I have forgotten! I'm not sure I'll have time for real work since I'll be doing all these performance tests!

Hope this helps....
Dan Performance4700Tester McCarty

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dan,

[[[Page 73 says, "WIDE POSITION - Install wheel with valve stem to the inside."]]]

This reference is under the heading "Front Wheel Positions".

The next heading on the same page is "Rear Wheel Positions",
....where it says just the OPPOSITE

And remember, the measurements given are "center to center".

The actual outside measure (as in "Will it fit thru the door?") will be 16.9 inches MORE...or 91.9 inches!

AND, you can't use position 1 (note the "NA" on the chart). this means that you can't just switch wheels, and have a narrow setting.

Dropping to setting 7 would allow you to also use setting 2 (the reverse of 7). Your outside measures would then be "wide" = 87.9 inches / "narrow" = 67.9 inches.

That's a 7ft 4 in. width on a 6 ft wheelbase! (seems plenty wide to me

Larry

 

[gvw]

Thanks for the information on wheel width - however, guess I will have to look at the manual when they deliver the "GREENIE" next week as I am confused on the various settings. Dealer is insisting that their dealer/factory manual requires the widest setting on the wheels - I can always change it especially with the backhoe on to lift the rear end off the ground. Looks like we resolved the outstanding issues today and will be able to complete the deal without the original salesman.
I am assuming that the manual that you are quoting from comes with the tractor. Is that all the manual I need or do I need to order additonal manuals? - think that I observed a post elsewhere on the page as to ordering manuals - guess I better wait for the rig to be delivered and see what comes with it. It is going to take them (dealer) several more days to finish installing the cab and setting up the loader and backhoe brackets. Looks like the cab install is taking a bit longer than expected with all of the wiring and stuff. Hopefully next week I will be "in the Green"

 

[Anonymous Poster]

GVW,
The manual probably came to the dealer with the tractor. Mine gave it to me to read while my tractor is being outfitted. The tractor is still at the dealer like yours is.

In spite of the fact that the words "widest setting' are used ( this would be setting 8), I'm betting that the "widest setting" refers to the widest of the 2 settings available to the dealer/customer with the wheels assembled AS-THEY-ARE-SHIPPED-FROM-THE-FACTORY (I believe this is setting 6).

To get the REAL "widest setting" (setting 8), would require dis-assembly of the wheel web/rim, changing their relative position, and reassembly.
This gives 4 inches more width overall than the next setting (7) and 8 inches more than setting 6.

Information has been posted here that shows that there is considerably more info in the "tech' manual than in just the "owner's" manual ( and the price would indicate that!).

Considering the investment in the tractor/attachments, and service/labor charges, I feel that you can't go wrong ordering the more-complete manual(s).

Info on ordering is in my recent post "JD 4700 tech manuals".

Larry

 

[dmccarty]

GVW,

I got a manual for each of the JD implements at the time of purchase. You should get them as well since they are for the owner. The more technical manuals were mucho dollars and the salesman talked me out of them. I like having those kinda of manuals around but the price was hefty.

Some of the manuals seem to have more warnings than information. But they do seem to have the information I have needed so far. The backhoe manual I got looked like it was taken to a copy center and reproduced. It also did not have information regarding the 4700 but that does not seem to be a problem.

Hope this helps...
Dan

 

[gvw]

Went to the dealer and visited the new machine today for the primary purpose of working out some of the installation details on the cab such as where to mount the heater and 12V power panel. Dealer will reverse the wheels back to where they were = positioned as they came from the factory (smile)! Hopefully the rig will be ready next week and be delivered about Thursday.
I'm still not totally convinced about the cab but to late to change now - guess if it doesn't work I can always take it off and sell it - dealer has assured me there are no additional holes drilled in the tractor body as they use all exstg. holes and penetrations to mount the cab. Sure as heck hope we have major snow and cold when I get the machine so I can justify the $ for the cab - guess I'm having the ol' buyer's remorse.
Later
GVW

 

[dmccarty]

I think you will like the cab. I want the cab after last weekend. I dress real warm and in layers but last weekend my feet, head and hands were cold. I have real thick warm gloves and a wool ski mask but it just was not enough. It was the first time I have really been cold on the tractor.

To stay warm I had to fire up the chainsaw and make some firewood. Using a chainsaw, regardless of the cold, just works up a sweat. Maybe if it was 0 degrees I would not work up a sweat with that thing! My Stihl has some sort of hand warmer attachment. If I get a chance today I'm going to pick up a sharpened chain at the dealer and I think I'll ask him about that hand warmer do hickey!

Later....
Dan McCarty

 

[cowboydoc]

Hey Dan don't go buy a new chain. It's easy as heck to sharpen a chain saw chain. They make a tool that you can get at any hardware store that you just file the grooves at a 45 degree angle and then another tool to file off the points. Works great. I sharpen mine before I go cut wood everytime. Never have to fight the saw at all. I just put the saw blade in the vice and go to it. Takes about 5 minutes to do if you keep it up. A little longer if you go longer in between sharpening. I can cut about 10-15 cords of wood before I ever think about changing the chain. I've got a Stihl 036 pro with a 24" blade and it does great.
Richard

 

[Anonymous Poster]

You're absolutely right about keeping up with sharpening your saws. I have a simple hand grinder (similar to a Dremel Tool) that does a great job in no time at all. With some practice, you get a razor sharp chain in just 10 minutes. A sharp chain makes a HUGE difference in the speed of cuts. I just bought a Husky 372XP with a 2' bar and it will cut a 2' diameter trunk in 8 seconds with a well-sharpened chain. A little grinding ahead of time saves alot of time in the woods!

 

[Bird]

Somewhere on here recently we had a long discussion about chain saw chain sharpening; the different types of chains and sharpening tools and methods, etc. I never quite got the hang of it with a file; just always paid a pro to sharpen mine, but now he's retired and gone. I got a Dremel Tool for Christmas; wonder if one of those little attachments might be the right size for the job?

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Hi Bird,
Hey I was the same way growing up. I hated to sharpen chain saw chains. Then they came out with this tool that has a flat piece on top and the lines to guide you with it. It works really well.
Richard

 

[dmccarty]

Hey Cowboydoc,

I sharpen my chains by hand with a chainsaw file. Every time a refulel/oil and clean the air filter I sharpen one side of the chain. It sure makes a difference. I have two bars and three chains. One chain to let the pros resharpen when I really mess it up and a chain for each bar. One of the chains is the origional and I'm wondering how much life it has left.

We had a great discussion about chains and sharpening tools and I was set to go buy one but I figure the hand files are working just fine.

Later...
Dan WithAPulledBackMuscleFromSplittingFirewoodAgravatedFromADayOfChainSawing McCarty

 

[dmccarty]

GVW,

Here is part two of my homework assignment. Part one is in the 4n1 FEL thread in the attachments forum.

I measured as close as I could the width of my tractor from OUTSIDE tire to OUTSIDE tire. It was tough to do this since I was by myself and the backhoe is on the tractor. The width was about 72 or 74 inches.

My front tires have the stems on the outside. Rear tire stems are on the inside. I can't tell which position the wheels/tires are mounted.

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi Dan,
You say you get 72 0r 74 inches...so let's call it 73.

The inflated width of your tires (R1s? / catalog #48D645) is 17.8 inches (from Titan tire-spec book, page 6).

Taking the inflated width (1/2 tire on each side) away from your "outside" measure gives us a "center to center" width of 55.2 inches.

Position three in your owner's manual, shows 55 inches... just about "right-on", I'd say.

Reversing the tires on your tractor (while also switching sides... to keep the 'directional" treads going the right way), gives position six.

The center to center measure given for pos.6 is 67 inches. Adding the 17.8 inches for the inflated tire width gives 84.8 inches. This should be your overall ("outside") width with "reversed" wheels.

So it looks like you can cover your tracks with a 6 foot mower with the narrow setting (your sidewalls "curve-in" to contact the ground - so your "track" will be a little less than your overall width).

And you can have a 7 foot (or so) "wide-stance" for maximum stability, if you want to switch sides with your wheels/tires.

My previous assumptions that the nomenclature of your tire (16.9/24) indicated an inflated width of 16.9 inches was wrong. I assumed this to be so because, in the case of the Michelins which I am putting on, that is the case (i.e., 19.5/24 DOES have an inflated width of 19.5 inches). The Titan spec-book straightened me out. sorry, if this caused any confusion

Hope this adds something to the info-pool.

Be looking for your next "report"!

Larry

 

[dmccarty]

Larry,

This tire width conversation has helped me out a bit. I just never thought out this stuff. I knew the capability was there, I was just more concerned with making sure my implements covered the rear wheels. Between my two home work assignments and greasing the tractor/backhoe/FEL I spent a good a hour before I did anything else! I'll have to look at the tire positions in the manual while looking at my setup to get a better understanding of all of this.

Later....
Dan McCarty

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dan,

The JD literature I have seen describes the MX-6 RMwr as having a cat.2 hitch... what did you do about this?

Larry

 

[dmccarty]

Hmmm,

Nothing. The MX6 hooks up just fine, well its a PITA to hook up any 3ph and the PTO but it fits. Are you looking at the MX 6 manual? I'll have to check mine and see what it says. But there was nothing done to make things fit as far was I know. The MX 6 hooks up just like the box blade.

I have only used the MX6 for a couple of hours and won't really touch it again for a couple more months. But I have hooked it up a couple of times without problems.

Curious....
Dan McCarty