Oil & Fuel Another Kubota DEF/SCR Problem M6-111

[vpracer]

I know this topic has been covered but didn't see any response on a resolution. I have a new M6-111, 135 hrs on it and the DEF warning comes on. Says I am in Level I with 8 minutes left before it goes to Level II (idle only I believe). Drained DEF tank and replaced with fresh DEF. No change in warning indicators. I call dealer, they say common problem and bring it in. Well a tractor that big doesn't just get tossed into the back of a pickup and taken in to the shop. Warranty covers repair but not the hauling ( $3/loaded mile....ouch).

Can't believe Kubota hasn't figured this issue out by now. Dealer hasn't told me the final result but says most commonly a DEF heater problem. Sadly they are replacing it with the same exact part number....WTH?? Oh and I can buy another year of extended warranty for $2,500!!!! Crazy that I'm considering it, but given the cost of anything DEF/SCR related I have to look into it.

I mean productivity with this machine was supposed to improve my life not make it worse. No tractor for almost a month now. Spend a fortune on these machines and I don't think its to unreasonable to expect they work as designed.

 

[diesel85]

Reading your post sounds depressing.

In any event, does your dealer do field service?

That part sounds like is field serviceable. Maybe you can work it out that the dealer comes out to do the work on it.

 

[MHarryE]

Check with your dealer - every time I complain to Kubota they say to see your dealer - but I believe the emissions law requires every emissions related component to be warranted for something like 5 years or 5,000 hours. I’m sure I have a warranty copy in my files as a copy is required to be delivered with new machines.

I have a neighbor with a M6-131 that had a similar problem. First time they had a mechanic come out and replace his DEF. that resolved the problem for a few months but it recurred. They then hauled his tractor into the shop and repaired. He is 91 and doesn’t sweat the details. He told me it had the problem, they took it to the dealership and it was returned repaired. That is a good thing about our dealer - he will haul in something like this without charging even though we get a large sticker saying warranty transport not covered. I have a M7 and haven’t had a problem but they likely have a different system being designed and built in Europe instead of Japan. About the only thing similar between the M7 and the M135GX I traded is the paint color.

 

[SDT]

I know this topic has been covered but didn't see any response on a resolution. I have a new M6-111, 135 hrs on it and the DEF warning comes on. Says I am in Level I with 8 minutes left before it goes to Level II (idle only I believe). Drained DEF tank and replaced with fresh DEF. No change in warning indicators. I call dealer, they say common problem and bring it in. Well a tractor that big doesn't just get tossed into the back of a pickup and taken in to the shop. Warranty covers repair but not the hauling ( $3/loaded mile....ouch).

Can't believe Kubota hasn't figured this issue out by now. Dealer hasn't told me the final result but says most commonly a DEF heater problem. Sadly they are replacing it with the same exact part number....WTH?? Oh and I can buy another year of extended warranty for $2,500!!!! Crazy that I'm considering it, but given the cost of anything DEF/SCR related I have to look into it.

I mean productivity with this machine was supposed to improve my life not make it worse. No tractor for almost a month now. Spend a fortune on these machines and I don't think its to unreasonable to expect they work as designed.

When buying a new tractor I always negotiate for free hauling for anything that requires returning to the shop during the warranty period.

Thank the federales for disruption in quality/durability as manufacturers scramble to react to nonsensical regulations every few years.

Dean

 

[art]

When buying a new tractor I always negotiate for free hauling for anything that requires returning to the shop during the warranty period.

Thank the federales for disruption in quality/durability as manufacturers scramble to react to nonsensical regulations every few years.

Dean

Dean I can only agree with you! When teir four air is cleaner coming out of the exhaust then the air coming into the air cleaner in NYC I think these regulations have cost consumers enough! I peg in the auto industry about ten thousand per car for this and about the same for crash worthiness!!! All to pad a politicians pocket! The average cost between 26 and 27 horsepower is over 3,000 dollars for the smog equipment!!!

 

[fried1765]

I know this topic has been covered but didn't see any response on a resolution. I have a new M6-111, 135 hrs on it and the DEF warning comes on. Says I am in Level I with 8 minutes left before it goes to Level II (idle only I believe). Drained DEF tank and replaced with fresh DEF. No change in warning indicators. I call dealer, they say common problem and bring it in. Well a tractor that big doesn't just get tossed into the back of a pickup and taken in to the shop. Warranty covers repair but not the hauling ( $3/loaded mile....ouch).

Can't believe Kubota hasn't figured this issue out by now. Dealer hasn't told me the final result but says most commonly a DEF heater problem. Sadly they are replacing it with the same exact part number....WTH?? Oh and I can buy another year of extended warranty for $2,500!!!! Crazy that I'm considering it, but given the cost of anything DEF/SCR related I have to look into it.

I mean productivity with this machine was supposed to improve my life not make it worse. No tractor for almost a month now. Spend a fortune on these machines and I don't think its to unreasonable to expect they work as designed.

Tractordata.com shows your tractor weight as 9789 lbs.
If the tractor tires are not loaded, you could haul that on a 14,000 lb. GVRW trailer.
With only 135 hours, and tractor trouble already, you might want to look into buying a 14K trailer.
A new 14K trailer (a solid, but not fancy one) can be bought for less than $5000, and will have excellent resale value, if you should eventually decide to sell it.

 

[fried1765]

When buying a new tractor I always negotiate for free hauling for anything that requires returning to the shop during the warranty period.

Thank the federales for disruption in quality/durability as manufacturers scramble to react to nonsensical regulations every few years.

Dean

I have a different philosophy!
I don't buy new tractors!

 

[vpracer]

Good idea about extended warranty on emissions related items. I'll check with dealer.

Hauling is different, I do have several trailers to chose from, including a gooseneck tandem dual 30' but it just more of the hassle factor. Tires are loaded plus a front loader and its a cab tractor. Knowing my luck, I'll get a flat on that trailer, on the inside tire, just to spite myself. Ha. Its more the principle of the thing, I have a day job and would need to take vacation just to haul in a broken tractor that never should have been broken. I have owned 3 other kubota's, of course none with DEF, and never had a problem. I'm just hoping Kubota would step up and either extend the warranty or re-engineer something that works.

 

[ruffdog]

DEF fluid is very susceptible to contamination when stored incorrectly or when it comes in contact with common metals. Eg...One tsp of salt will contaminate 5000gal of DEF.
DEF Contamination and how to avoid it

 

[diesel85]

Forgot to add earlier... I know it's not a large farm tractor, but when I bought my BX2200, I had an issue with something (forgot what), and no questions asked, they came out and hauled back and forth. They also had it fixed within a week turn around.

 

[rScotty]

Good idea about extended warranty on emissions related items. I'll check with dealer.

While you are there you and he might want to get on the same page on a couple of other warranty issues that come up. One thing already mentioned is who pays for hauling the tractor for warranty issues.

Most dealerships in rural areas have a field service truck so that hauling isn't necessary for most things. Ask about that....

Then there is the issue of just how long a warranty lasts. Like MHarryE says, the duration might be different for emission devices.
There's also a difference between the machine warranty and parts warranty. The overall tractor has a warranty period, but so do any parts replaced. The warranty on replacement parts or any warranty work typically starts for those parts and that work when the repair is made. So the warranty on repairs done is longer than the original warranty. A replacement part warranty doesn't run out just because the general tractor warranty is up.
That should also hold for any issue that is attended to under the warranty period. That issue still needs to be fixed even after the the warranty period is up - as long as the problem was identified and agreed on within the warranty period.
And finally, keep a record of downtime. If the tractor isn't usable for a month, that month should be added to the warranty period.

These are all things that should be discussed, noted, and initialed right on the sales contract when buying any new tractor - it would save a lot of misunderstanding.
But if that didn't happen, now is still a good time to sit down and decide exactly who is responsible for what. At the dealership I was always amazed that more people didn't do go through the responsibilities of both seller and buyer as a normal part of doing business. It just makes sense.
rScotty

 

[oosik]

Every time I read a thread, such as this - I say a quiet little prayer for my salesman friend at the local Kubota dealer. He talked me into the purchase of my Kubota - a year or so before they came out with Tier 4.

Dogs - I hope for the best for you there, vpracer.

 

[vpracer]

Thanks guys for the posts/advice. I will ask about the field service truck, but down here, in remote areas, employees are hard enough to hire, keep trained and working at the shop. Great dealer, price is always right and I do think they try their best to handle warranty work. No complaint with dealer, its more the mfg I think. Sure stuff breaks and you can't anticipate every issue (thus a warranty) but in this case, they know there is an issue and yet the fix is just replace with the same part. Not sure that's the right answer but who am I to know. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

The ship has sailed on getting things settled before the purchase. Live and learn though. I guess I am an old soul in my beliefs and feel like companies should stand behind their products, just like a hand shake means something in my book. We shall see the ultimate outcome. I did read the emissions warranty portion of the book and see for my tractor its 5 yrs or XX number of hours. I still have little faith that I won't have to come out of pocket in some way, even when covered under warranty. Little skeptical I suppose.

 

[boomer1025]

The reason they are replacing with the same parts is because there are no up dated parts to fix the problem at this time. When they get enough of failed parts back and see what's causing the problem, then they can up date the components in the assemblies to fix things.
DEF fluid is very corrosive.

 

[Fallon]

8 year emissions components warranty. I think that relates to tractors as well, but it might be for road vehicles only. Pretty sure the milage isnt revalant for tractors.

Federal Emissions Warranties Are Often Forgotten or Overlooked

 

[SDT]

The reason they are replacing with the same parts is because there are no up dated parts to fix the problem at this time. When they get enough of failed parts back and see what's causing the problem, then they can up date the components in the assemblies to fix things.
DEF fluid is very corrosive.

Bingo, boomer.

These days, manufacturers engineering resources are taxed to the max just trying to keep up with the never changing federal regulations. This MUST be done in order to keep selling product. Engineering changes necessary to address field issues are forced to await such resources.

They will sort it out but it may take awhile. In the meanwhile Kubota will continue to replace failed parts with available parts. Note: Most manufacturers do not change part numbers when improving components. Don't know Kubota's policy in this regard.

Thanks, federales.

SDT, who was a design engineer for GM for many years and knows how things are.

 

[MHarryE]

Emissions warranty wouldn’t be a problem with a Kubota unless they change their business practice. A turbo oil seal failed on my M135GX and oiled the DPF. After replacing the turbo, the mechanic did a parked regen. When the regen was over and the computer showed still partially plugged, he replaced replaced the DPF. No question from Kubota about covering the cost of everything. Have no idea why the turbo blew. It was at the dealer during mid-winter to address my complaint of shifting jerkier than our John Deere power shifts. After tweaking the power shift they asked me to try it out before they returned it. The mechanic and I were driving it around the yard when it lost power and started belching smoke. I got out and looked at the engine. Oil was streaming down the side. Mechanic said there would be no warranty issue - there wasn’t.

 

[rScotty]

There's a curious thing about mechanical repairs that I've watched change over the past half century. It used to be that a dealership was judged at least partly on their the professionality of their service department. Dealerships put a lot of money into their workshops partly because they saw it as being some of the best advertising they could do. It told people that this was a dealership that planned on being around for a long time. That's good for everyone.

it was pretty common sales practice to show customers around the service department. How often does that happen today? And although there are dealerships that are run on a different business model today, it is still pretty easy for a service department to make the bulk of the dealership's money. Of course for that whole business model to work it does require that the dealer invest in his service department.

But most dealerships a generation ago did invest in their service department for all the reasons above and for a few more...
One thing that is important but difficult to judge is that a dealer's service department is something completely under the owner's control - and that's important to a business owner. A dealer may not have much say in how a manufacturer is going to deal with warranty or parts replacement, but the dealer with a good service department has his choice of a lot of other ways to deal with mechanical problems. And some of those options can make money for him.

Just musing....
I wonder how many tractor owners visited the service department when thinking about what tractor to buy from which dealer? And I wonder what makes a service department impressive to this new generation of tractor buyers?
rScotty

 

[ruffdog]

Some dealers look at their service dept as an asset to the business, others view it as a costly overhead. Guess which one will provide better service?

 

[oosik]

You DO bring up an interesting thought there - rScotty. From my experiences - the Kubota dealership started long ago as a Ford dealer(1929). No idea why they went to Kubota. I bought my first tractor - brand new Ford 1710, 1982 - from them. The salesman was a member of the family that owned the dealership - at the time. He took great pains to take me thru the service dept and introduce me to the service manager. We had a great talk - he did most of the talking - being totally new to tractors, I did the listening.

Some time ago this dealership transitioned from Ford to Kubota. Now this dealership is joined with other Kubota dealerships in the PNW and is no longer owned by the original family. Things have changed. When I bought my new 2009 Kubota - the salesman was somewhat amazed that I would want to go back and talk to the service manager. He said - OK - and the salesman tagged along to see how and what was going on. I'm a good friend of the service manager - he has been to my place to hunt elk and fish in my lake. The salesman never quite understood why a new tractor buyer would be interested in the service dept. That's OK - I know that I will receive top notch service if I ever need it.

However - I see the salesman responding to the "new" breed of tractor buyers. These new buyers have little or no concern or concept of on-going service. Its chrome hub caps and "better be no chips" in the powder coat paint on their new implement.

Example - at the dealership - guy brings in Land Pride brush hog - sisal bailing twine wrapped around the stump jumper. He drove 100 miles, round trip, and paid the dealership $170 to cut off the baling twine. Made the same trip - four days later - to pick up the unit and bring it home. Service manager says - this is the type of business they are getting now-a-days.