Another lightning strike another Well Control Box

[WoodChuckDad]

Big storm. Lightning atrike that seemed like it was close maybe even hit the house. No damage to outside of house that I can see but wife was in kitchen he. And she got a shock. She was at the stove. Gfci outlet in utility room went bad. Gfci outlet that Starlink is plugged into went bad and well pump control box died. I just replaced it, about two or three months ago and had a whole other thread about it. I lookednonline and Lowes had one in stock so I jumped in wifes jeep and drove in. Came backnwith one that is only rated for 1 hp. Replacng 1.5 rated box. Looked at the capaciter in side and it was 220 VAC. The bad one was 250 VAC. I googled it and it said it would probably be ok. So I swapped capacitors. Well it blew about 15 seconds after I flipped the switch. Loud pop and a woosh of white smoke blowing out of the capacitor. 120 bucks down the drain and atill no water. Amazon Says they can deliver one tomorrow. I doubt it, but I ordered it.
After last fiasco with lightening and electricity issues I had the power company come check the lines and had electrician come out here and check my grounds and my panels. He recommended a lightening bar across the roof I dont think it actually struck the house, but I dont know how this keeps happening.

 

[Torvy]

We used to have a similar problem at our house in the 'Burbs of FtW.

Then we got a whole house surge protector. It was around $1000, but a new pool control panel was $1300. (Not to mention the other things that blew). Never had a problem after that. We put one in the new place. So far so good. We get a lot of T-storms in this part of the US.

A direct hit will still cause damage, but my small sample size made me a believer.

Take this 'expert' with a grain of salt, too.

How Effective Are Surge Protectors?

While no surge protection system is 100% effective, a whole-house surge protector can significantly reduce your risk.

www.thisoldhouse.com

 

[grsthegreat]

Honestly, a whole house surge suppressor wont save a house from direct lightning strike. But should help protect from a strike further down the line. I have 2 on my house. After losing electric oven to a strike.

 

[steve tym]

Did you order just the capacitor, or a whole control box? The relay inside could also be bad. A 1 hp box should be a QD (parts in the lid), a 1.5hp, you have to change the entire box, the parts are mounted inside the box.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I ordered the whole box and an extra capaciter

 

[steve tym]

Still could be an issue with the pump.....

 

[newbury]

That's scary!
Hope your wife is OK!
Back in '83 my fiancee was in kitchen and lightning struck a mature red maple that was ~18' from a rear corner of my 2 story house in Alexandria, VA. Blew it up and pieces of tree and turf were thrown over the house into the front yard.
So our marriage started with a bang.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've worked on a few houses that got hit by lightning. Most of the time, the rafters are solid black were the lightning burned them, but no other damage. The worse damage to a house that I've seen had the lightning hit a big pine tree at the edge of the yard. It went down the tree, ripping off the bark, into the wet ground and to a metal natural gas pipe. It traveled up the pipe to a ground wire that was attached to the pipe and then melted the breakers in the breaker box. And everything that was plugged in at the time was fried!!!! The entire house had to be rewired, and everything electrical in the house has to be replaced. Insurance covered a lot of it, but not enough.

Since you are up on a hill, would that make you more likely to get hit by lightning? I don't know how it works, but I've always been told that the worse place to be during a storm is on a hill.

Would a lightning rod help? I've thought about buying one. I've had trees hit on my land and about a month ago, a power pole was hit out along the road that killed the power for 34 homes in my area, including my place. We heard it hit, and the house shook, but I never found the pole that was damaged. It sure felt like it was close, but I went at least a mile down every road and never saw anything.

This tree was on the other side of my barn, just a few hundred yards away. It shook the house really good when it hit!!!!! Since this is where I was building my goat fence, I took out the tree, along with everything around it. At the time I took it out, it was still alive, but I doubt it would have survived.

 

[ponytug]

@WoodChuckDad Another vote for a whole house surge suppressor, and perhaps a second one at the pump. I would also wire up an EMI snubber at the pump for a little more protection. At this point, I think that you have shown you are in a lightning prone area. When there are strikes that are close, the resultant electromagnetic pulse can travel on wires, across the ground, through the air.

@EddieWalker I've seen trees survive multiple hits. I think it just depends on how bad the hit is. I've also seen trees shattered to a short stump from exploding from the inside. I have also seen lightning hit bare ground, in preference over trees, and once saw lightning hit the center of a square mile sized lake. That lit the whole lake up from the inside out. A family friend was hiking above tree line and got caught in a sudden storm and hustled down toward the tree line to get out of it. (Not recommended practice by the way.) As he hustled down hill, he saw several balls of St. Elmo's fire come by him. After some hair raising minutes, he did make it to the trees safe and sound, and he thought all was well until he got to the car park at the base of the mountain. He popped into the bathrooms to relieve himself only to discover that all was not well. The copper zipper in his jeans had been welded into a solid piece of copper.

My point being, I think it is hard to predict where lightning will convert a "feeler" to a "strike". There are several schools of thought on how and what sort of design lightning system homes should have, but I think for homes in a lightning prone area, especially isolated homes, that some form of lightning protection would fall under the category of prudence. That is in addition to whole house surge protection. The two have very different purposes.

Lightning behavior and best practices seems to be evolving pretty quickly over the last decade or so. Some of it validating old beliefs, some disproving them.

All the best,

Peter

 

[psvfd]

I had a lighting strike a few weeks ago. Did not find where it hit, had to change Gfci outlet in the camper and the one on there pole where the camper is plugged in. Also the Gfci outlet in the shed. Had to changed the 12 volt charger in the camper. The breaker for the freezer tripped, just had to reset. The string lights on the porch stopped working. Tripped the Gfci outlet in my bathroom, just had to reset. Led light in the shed stopped working. One of the led flood lights that is plugged in to the camper stopped working, looks to be burnt. Could of been lot worse, saw a big burst of sparks out the front door, do not see what it could of hit, just things had to changed. Need to install the whole house surge suppressor.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have surge protectors on my TV and Computer, but I'm not familiar with a whole house surge protector. Does it go before or after the breaker box? Can it handle a direct hit from lightning? The house that I mentioned earlier had the breakers that didn't stop the lightning from going through them. I'm guessing there was too much electricity for them to trip, or something like that. Maybe it just jumped across the breakers? I really don't know how that works or what lightning does when it's inside a house.

 

[psvfd]

The one I see goes by the main breaker box, have to have a open spot for a breaker for the surge protector.

 

[newbury]

I have surge protectors on my TV and Computer, but I'm not familiar with a whole house surge protector. Does it go before or after the breaker box? Can it handle a direct hit from lightning? The house that I mentioned earlier had the breakers that didn't stop the lightning from going through them. I'm guessing there was too much electricity for them to trip, or something like that. Maybe it just jumped across the breakers? I really don't know how that works or what lightning does when it's inside a house.

My whole house surge protector is wired in to my breaker box.

 

[ponytug]

I have surge protectors on my TV and Computer, but I'm not familiar with a whole house surge protector. Does it go before or after the breaker box? Can it handle a direct hit from lightning? The house that I mentioned earlier had the breakers that didn't stop the lightning from going through them. I'm guessing there was too much electricity for them to trip, or something like that. Maybe it just jumped across the breakers? I really don't know how that works or what lightning does when it's inside a house.

Some whole house surge protectors are built into a pair of breakers, some need to be wired to a pair of breakers. The whole house surge protectors should be wired as close to the supply wires as possible, e.g. in the top two breaker locations for top fed panels, bottom two for a bottom fed, or adjacent in a mid-supply panel. Time to clamp the surge voltage translates to distance (speed of light and all that), so the closer the surge protector is to the main wires and the shorter the surge protector wires, the more likely that the surge level will be limited at your electronics. That doesn't mean that you don't need good surge protectors at the outlets, you still do. The whole house surge protectors clamp at higher voltages than the surge suppressor strips. So the strips provide additional protection.

I have a Siemens 140kA model, as it was the largest that I could find at the time;

Amazon.com: Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protection Device Rated for 140,000 Amps : Electronics

Amazon.com: Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protection Device Rated for 140,000 Amps : Electronics

www.amazon.com

Leviton also makes quality protectors in my opinion;

Leviton - Whole-House Surge Protectors - The Home Depot

Get free shipping on qualified Leviton Whole-House Surge Protectors products or Buy Online Pick Up in Store today in the Electrical Department.

www.homedepot.com

Eaton makes good ones as well, I think.

Larger ratings (Amps/joules) tend to mean longer life times (surviving more hits), but the strike size and distance to the house is a big factor in how much energy is transmitted.

If it were me, I would not buy an off brand surge protector, as I have seen too many that were built with questionable designs or components.

I would not overlook the importance of a good house ground. Lots of folks drive a ground rod or two and call it good. Ufer grounds are much better. It may be worth checking if lightning is an issue. Adding MgSO4 (epsom salts) to the area around the ground rod can help in some soils, but it does need renewing.

All the best,

Peter

 

[grsthegreat]

Some whole house surge protectors are built into a pair of breakers, some need to be wired to a pair of breakers. The whole house surge protectors should be wired as close to the supply wires as possible, e.g. in the top two breaker locations for top fed panels, bottom two for a bottom fed, or adjacent in a mid-supply panel. Time to clamp the surge voltage translates to distance (speed of light and all that), so the closer the surge protector is to the main wires and the shorter the surge protector wires, the more likely that the surge level will be limited at your electronics. That doesn't mean that you don't need good surge protectors at the outlets, you still do. The whole house surge protectors clamp at higher voltages than the surge suppressor strips. So the strips provide additional protection.

I have a Siemens 140kA model, as it was the largest that I could find at the time;

Amazon.com: Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protection Device Rated for 140,000 Amps : Electronics

Amazon.com: Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protection Device Rated for 140,000 Amps : Electronics

www.amazon.com

Leviton also makes quality protectors in my opinion;

Leviton - Whole-House Surge Protectors - The Home Depot

Get free shipping on qualified Leviton Whole-House Surge Protectors products or Buy Online Pick Up in Store today in the Electrical Department.

www.homedepot.com

Eaton makes good ones as well, I think.

Larger ratings (Amps/joules) tend to mean longer life times (surviving more hits), but the strike size and distance to the house is a big factor in how much energy is transmitted.

If it were me, I would not buy an off brand surge protector, as I have seen too many that were built with questionable designs or components.

I would not overlook the importance of a good house ground. Lots of folks drive a ground rod or two and call it good. Ufer grounds are much better. It may be worth checking if lightning is an issue. Adding MgSO4 (epsom salts) to the area around the ground rod can help in some soils, but it does need renewing.

All the best,

Peter

I also use the siemens firstsurge FS140. I think that series has changed a bit.

 

[ponytug]

I also use the siemens firstsurge FS140. I think that series has changed a bit.

View attachment 3613783

I think that we have the same unit, but your installation is much cleaner.

All the best, Peter

 

[Chewwy]

Our whole house surge protection is installed in the meter panel, between the meter and the supply from the transformer. All our TVs and computer equipment a supplied from battery backed up supplies. They also provide some limited surge protection. Never had a GFCI breaker or outlet affected as of yet.

Our biggest damage with nearby lightning has been the power inserter (SWM) for the TV sattellite system. Supposedly the damage results from the induced current in the coax cable from the dish.

 

[duffer]

Several years ago I'm sitting in my living room watching TV. Thunderstorm in progress. All of a sudden "Crack/Boom" at the same time. I jumped a foot straight up off the couch from a sitting position. Lightning hit the elec transformer on the back corner of my yard. I saw it hit.

Luckily, no damage inside the house. Ever since then I've had whole house surge protectors in the breaker boxes. in every house since then.

 

[ponytug]

Our whole house surge protection is installed in the meter panel, between the meter and the supply from the transformer. All our TVs and computer equipment a supplied from battery backed up supplies. They also provide some limited surge protection. Never had a GFCI breaker or outlet affected as of yet.

Our biggest damage with nearby lightning has been the power inserter (SWM) for the TV sattellite system. Supposedly the damage results from the induced current in the coax cable from the dish.

This might be shutting the barn door after the cows have left, but there are surge protectors and lightning arresters for coax and Ethernet cables, ideally where they enter the house, and tied to their own ground rod. E.g.

Amazon.com

And

Amazon.com

I would bear in mind that none of these are 100%, and if you have sensitive items several layers of surge protection might warranted, but, again, nothing is going to stop 100% of all lightning damage. (Well, ok, perhaps living in cave off of battery power...)

FWIW: I have both gas tube and MOV units; the gas tube arresters outside, just before entering the building in a junction box, and MOV based protectors inside at the first connection point.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Chewwy]

This might be shutting the barn door after the cows have left, but there are surge protectors and lightning arresters for coax and Ethernet cables, ideally where they enter the house, and tied to their own ground rod. E.g.

Amazon.com

And

Amazon.com

I would bear in mind that none of these are 100%, and if you have sensitive items several layers of surge protection might warranted, but, again, nothing is going to stop 100% of all lightning damage. (Well, ok, perhaps living in cave off of battery power...)

FWIW: I have both gas tube and MOV units; the gas tube arresters outside, just before entering the building in a junction box, and MOV based protectors inside at the first connection point.

All the best,

Peter

It only damages the power inserter, which Directv replaces free of charge. They gave me a bunch several years ago and I still have three left. Part of the problem is the location of our dish. To get a clear line of sight to the satellite, the coax is well over 100 ft. Lomg, making it more susceptible to induced currents.

Over the years the circuitry from the dish has been modified several time by Directv. The original installation had three coax cables and a triple LNB at the dish. It also had a connection thru the land line phone system for update communications We are now down to only one coax from the same LNB and no land line phone connection. Updates are from internet via wifi and cellular.

Have not had any damage from lighting in the last four years (knocking on wood).