Another neighbor problem.

Spencer · Jul 22, 2003

( We are clearing some land that is well off his property line and he still fusses over that. )

If the land you are clearing is on the easement then that is also his property. You have a right to cross that land but he owns it.

GreenMtnMan · Jul 22, 2003

It would be nice to have neighbors willing to help each other. We have that for the most part, only one bad neighbor. 

In my experience it seems that there is *always* one bad neighbor. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I wonder why that is. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SageBrush · Jul 22, 2003

"Old easements are sometimes a grey area in the State of Alabama, especially if they were not written very well. I have seen some property lines that actually overlap in the State of Alabama. It can be very confusing and frustrating."

Yep, I'm learning about that. I don't understand how an original land owner can retain 90% control of the easement when they were paid for the land. Thats what he claims.

It won't matter much longer, we will have all the brush gone soon, and he can't stop us from using our own road. He can try though. I have read all the Alabama easement information and see nothing about use other than the deed holder. Very vague. He has been tresspassing recently, we may start inforcing our gates and posted signs if we see him, I don't trust him around our equipment. He carrys a shotgun sometimes too. Which I view as a threat and I don't take that lightly.

There is a ditch along the property line and I always mow to that point. I'm going to continue as usual and wait for him to do something. Maybe he'll cool off and think about all the trouble he is fixing to get himself in to. Next time he crosses the cattle gate he will be tresspassing since he has been warned. What a shame, all this for weeds after 23 years of peacefull living next to each other.

He must be having a late life thingy. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SageBrush · Jul 22, 2003

I guess there has to be at least one. Yes we have a deed to the road land, it cost $3000 back in the 70's. The easement came first, the larger or 40' wide part was purchased for above market. Were still out in the boonies.

The plot shows the road. The land is actually two parcels, the 40' came with the second 44 acres. I'm starting to think he forgot about the out right "purchase". The 40' X 180' is on a seperate piece of paper since it was to different transactions, our last survey shows the road clearly. I'm really surprised he agreed to the 40'. But, he did, and he was paid for it. We actually had to buy more than what we wanted, to make him happy. We wanted 20'. I guess he's haveing second thoughts 23 years later.

Three years ago he bush hogged our place when our tractor was down and we returned the favor. How things have changed.

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 22, 2003

"I always thought a paid for easement meant you owned the land, I see now that may not be the case." 

You see correctly. You did NOT buy the land, ergo, you do NOT own the land. Spencer said it best. You have the right to cross it. You can use it for ingress and egress to and from your property.

As to maintaining it, I don't know. That is the stuff lawsuits are made of. Should you have the right to maintain a road so as to facilitate your legal ingress and egress? Should the owner, who sold you this right, have some duty to maintain it himself so as to facilitate that right which he sold to you? Should there be a division of costs for such. If so, how should it be divided? Who determines what and how much and how often said maintenance is done?

As I always suggest, try to make some kind of peace with this man. Life is to short to be spent in strife or litigation.

MarkV · Jul 22, 2003

I was getting a bit confused with the terms being used at first. When the road property was being referred to as an easement I thought you were wrong to do clearing and fencing. To me an easement, some paid for and some granted, allows for a specific use of a defined piece of property. The power company can have an easement to run lines through a section of property but they do not own or pay the taxes on that property. They are limited as to what they can do on that easement and it depends on what was agreed when the easement was granted or paid for. Road easements often only allow you to come and go on the road. It is not your land to make any decisions about even if you paid to be allowed to come and go over someone else's land. Now if you have a warranty deed to that property it is not an easement it is your property and your road. That is a whole different thing.

If you have a deed, make a copy and write a letter to the neighbor explaining that he is confused. You do not have an easement through his property, you own a 40' wide strip of property adjoining his. If I had a deed I would fence it and clearly define what was mine to put an end to the confusion.

Good luck
MarkV

DavidJ · Jul 22, 2003

As long as you have a valid deed to the strip, it is yours to do with as you please unless specifically stated in said deed. If you've given him easement then you have to respect that, otherwise make a copy of the deed and write him a nice letter about the situation and send it to him certified mail so he has to sign for it.

SageBrush · Jul 22, 2003

Thats what we have to make clear, the up to date deed includes the road. The road does not go through his land, but rather, it runs along side. He only has a small piece, its not very deep. Only 180 feet.

It really shouldn't matter either way. The road must be maintained and we have done so for many years. The road stays about 12' wide and there are no trees of value nor would we cut trees down on anothers land. Why this issue has come up now is the real question. He has nothing more to gain by fussing over our road maintenance. How can grass cutting hurt him on our land? The only reason we are clearing brush is to allow reasonable egress even if it was his. The brush serves no use. Untill recently a car could not enter without draging or being scratched by thorny bushes or leaning pine trees because we had been "lazy". The power company cuts the same trees every year which helps. Plus the person next door even cut the brush away from his fence and nothing was said to him, we got the nasty language instead. He dosen't even own the land.

Even with a plane easment you should not try to keep people from making a road passable. As land owners we have never expected others to NOT maintain their drives, just the opposite. Presently the road will not support heavy trucks anymore, that will have to change since we drive heavy trucks. A loaded dump truck crumbled a portion of it two weeks ago. Maybe he hates dump trucks. We don't get up before 8:00 most of the time so noise is not a real issue sice he works.

On the subject of easments, what does the 10', 20', 30' really mean? On the other thread the problem was with the road size. So, if you have a 40' easment and they want a 18' road with ditches on both sides and your easment has no use restrictions, how can you stop them? Isn't 40 feet, 40 feet? I, see now you should make sure the restrictions are spelled out.

We tried to stop a 60' powerline easement once and failed. Even though they destroyed old growth trees for no reason and created 4' ruts through the property and over a spring causing extensive damage to the water quality. All this because they wanted a 60' clear area for low voltage lines that were never installed!

They did pay damages, but nothing close to market. The spring was muddy from then on. After 10 years it never cleared up for some reason. Too much run off I persume. That still bothers me. We have learned to beware of utility easments. But this latest one takes the cake, I cant' cut grass along my road? Whats next, I can't drive down to my house? No trucks allowed? Too bad, all his neighbors are full time farmers with all kinds of fun stuff.

Where do these people come from? Do they really think others are that stupid. Does yelling and screaming make it legal? He only got me looking at the property lines and I now see he is over his! Time for a new survey. This is really the first time a neighbor started a conversation by screaming. My family hasen't spoken 20 words to him in 20 years. Then he drives up and starts screaming. Great guy! Very stable. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I just hope this dosen't continue. Why he wants to cut my grass still stumps me. I'm still waiting for him to do it. He even says he will maintain the road..... ok, why? I will not turn down free road work and why would he get so angry over me smoothing up my own road or even his? I would be thankfull for the nice gesture. I figure I'll have to wait a long time untill I see him buy some gravel. Mucho Loco /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for reading.

Shamus

MossRoad · Jul 23, 2003

Here's a definition of the word 'easement':

A liberty, privilege, or advantage, which one proprietor has in the estate of another proprietor, distinct from the ownership of the soil, as a way, water course, etc.

You keep calling it an easment. Did you purchase the land or did you purchase an easement? That still is not clear to me. Around here, if you purchase the land, it is yours and there is no easement because it is yours, period. If you purchased an easement, it allows you to cross his property to get to yours. But he still owns the land, not you. You can't do anything to it without his permission.

So which one is it? Do you own the land or did you purchase an easement? That, in my mind, is the legal question your attorney should figure out before you do anything else on what might be his property.

One other note. You mentioned that your family hasn't spoken to him 20 words in 20 years and now you think he's a crabby old man. Maybe he thinks the same of you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway, I hope you work things out. Keep us posted.

SageBrush · Jul 23, 2003

He is the one thats not friendly. As far as we know the land is paid for and we have found the deed. We have three deeds actually. We also have the original easement. My late Grandfather bought the "road" ..... 40 X 180 from him later. Unless we are missing something we have full control over the road or the 40'.

He hasn't replied to our deed. The guy is not normal, he will get angry for no reason and is the local "nut case" that we thought was due to a bad temper, but it seems more like a mental case now. His wife has to keep him under control, he looses it ever once in a while, but this is the first time it has effected us. His wife did say that she did not know that there was a real problem. Now he is acting like nothing happended. He now is saying he was upset because he didn't get to mow the grass. I though he was joking, but he was serious. Maybe he is more insane than I thought? He didn't bring up the road ownership, just said he wanted us not to "fix" the road. He'll be angry again. I'll be working on that road as soon as I can get my boxblade from the back woods where it was left due to getting stuck. I don't know why he has started this nonsense. He can't stop me from working on my own road. But he sure is trying. Claims he wants to handle it? Yeah right. Like he's going to maintain a neighbor's road for free.

Regardless, we are contacting our attorney about the matter to see about a restraining order if he continues with these fits. Maybe he had a bad day after forgetting to take his meds, I hope so. I don't have a problem with him mowing the grass along the road. Thats a good thing in my book. I just can't remember him ever mowing the grass in the past or ever asking to do it. Who knows what will happen next time I mow in about 4 weeks.

Well, now I can say I've recieved threats for mowing my own grass. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif