Another tractor manufacturer out of business?

[Torvy]

I remember when people weren't swayed by trendy, unproven gadgetry and could see a scam when it came to separating them from their money. Also no one feared using a gallon of gasoline and "chicken little" the sky is falling nursery tale was just a kids story.

A friend and I mowed lawns (7th-9th grade). We usually brought our own, but one older lady insisted we use her Black and Decker corded one. (1970s.)

It was a PITA., but she paid well and we didn't have to buy gas.

The bigger issue for me is that the gas (mostly due to ethanol, I think) formulas today cause so many small engine problems. We used to just put gas and oil in them and they started right up.

 

[arrow]

I've tried to compare Battery Powered Vehicles to Cordless Tools because of how good Cordless Tools have become, but it's just not the same. Cordless Tools come in a variety of abilities, with some being very good, and some that are still too junky to use if you need them to make a living. Being that they are not regulated, or forced on you by the Government, they get better in order to stay in business and make a profit.

Battery Powered Vehicles do not rely on the consumer to provide a better product. Once Government gets involved, the only goal in making a Battery Powered Vehicle is doing what the Government demands of them. Get Government out of the equation, and then they will have to provide a better product, or they will disappear.

I consider gubmit like the slaughter fencing leading and directing cattle to their demise all while the legislators make a buck with corporate favoring bills that force you in the direction of the slaughter. Just like fencing.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

The tractor they were selling was the cost of a 48hp diesel, but it had 12PTO HP. That is a tough sell. In that market people use them less than 50hrs per year. Fuel cost isn't a large cost. The real cost is in acquisition and loss of productivity. Resale will be crap now

 

[arrow]

The tractor they were selling was the cost of a 48hp diesel, but it had 12PTO HP. That is a tough sell. In that market people use them less than 50hrs per year. Fuel cost isn't a large cost. The real cost is in acquisition and loss of productivity. Resale will be crap now

To me, their biggest mistake was not to ascertain market dynamics. Or if they did, it was littered with innuendo as opposed to cold hard metrics.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I think when you listen in an echo chamber, you really do think you know what you are doing, when you really are out of touch

 

[5030]

Sounds to me like the 'Grant' money has run out!

Grant money is your tax dollars being wasted by government entities with zero fiscal responsibility.

It all distills down to... Easy come, easy go.

Politicians are real good at spending other folks money.

 

[5030]

Said before and will say again, the tractor market (and other markets as well), when there are too many players, the slices of pie as it relates to sales, gets thinner and thinner and when that happens, the marginal manufacturers cease to exist.

..and that is what is going to happen with EV's as well. Only the strong survive and the marginal ones fold. Once the Chinese invade the domestic EV market, you'll see many marginal ones cease to exist. BYD will sell very competitively priced EV's here and that will cause a reduction in builders because they won't be able to compete once the playing field is tilted. When your P&L statement gets lopsided, you fold. Plain and simple and BYD will cause that. Why the domestic EV makers are scaling back. They see the handwriting on the wall. That and the fact that a large percentage of buyers don't want an EV in the first place. Maybe a no plug in Hybrid but not a pure plug in EV ad that really has nothing to do with gummit subsidies either. Heck the government is already bankrupt so they keep on printing paper money and that drives the inflation spiral and I'm not gonna get into that on this forum anyway. All I know is, I'm fortunate I don't have a vehicle payment. Buying an new, extremely overpriced vehicle today is insane.

 

[CliffordK]

The tractor they were selling was the cost of a 48hp diesel, but it had 12PTO HP. That is a tough sell. In that market people use them less than 50hrs per year. Fuel cost isn't a large cost. The real cost is in acquisition and loss of productivity. Resale will be crap now

Greenworks is pushing hard into the zero-turn mower market. Their argument is that for commercial use the gas savings will pay for the mower. However that wouldn't be true for personal residential use.

 

[CliffordK]

My guess is that Solectrac did have a market, but looking at the reviews, it looks more like a home built tractor kludged together in someone's garage, and one can do better on the next one. Yet, trying to sell it for top dollar.

Not enough power for a mower or tiller? Really?

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

12 PTO HP

 

[5030]

12 PTO HP

Touche' twice.

 

[5030]

On the subject of battery powered lawn mowers, specifically zero turn ones, last time I saw a picture of one, it was burning at some trade show and the firefighters were unable to put it out. Just what I want in my garage...

The local Home Depot has a bunch of battery powered ones sitting, collecting dust, I believe they are E-Goes or some such. No one wants to pay the price for them which is high other than a few 'green new deal advocates', which are a distinct minority, despite what AOC says.

About the only battery powered lawn type equipment that appears to be selling are the battery powered chainsaws and even they aren't flying off the shelves either.

Normal battery powered hand tools sell well but not because they are battery powered but because they are cordless and extremely portable which is why I have them as well.

Myself, I'd never consider a battery powered chainsaw and never a battery powered lawn mower and certainly never an electric (battery powered) tractor because for what I use my tractors for, that puts me smack dab in 225 grand John Deere club and I flat out cannot afford that, depreciation factored in or not. Besides, I don't have electric power in the big barn so charging one is kind of out of the question anyways and I cannot imagine being in a remote field (I farm some fields that are a distance from here) and running low on juice and getting stranded.

That don't play with me, especially when I can call my wife on the 2 way and have her bring out the truck with the bed tank in it and refuel a tractor in the field in a couple minutes. I cannot see her bringing out the portable generator and waiting a couple hours for the tractor to recharge and all the while burning fossil fuel to do it. I don't believe that would make her a happy camper.

Just my 2 cents on the subject....lol

 

[arrow]

Said before and will say again, the tractor market (and other markets as well), when there are too many players, the slices of pie as it relates to sales, gets thinner and thinner and when that happens, the marginal manufacturers cease to exist.

..and that is what is going to happen with EV's as well. Only the strong survive and the marginal ones fold. Once the Chinese invade the domestic EV market, you'll see many marginal ones cease to exist. BYD will sell very competitively priced EV's here and that will cause a reduction in builders because they won't be able to compete once the playing field is tilted. When your P&L statement gets lopsided, you fold. Plain and simple and BYD will cause that. Why the domestic EV makers are scaling back. They see the handwriting on the wall. That and the fact that a large percentage of buyers don't want an EV in the first place. Maybe a no plug in Hybrid but not a pure plug in EV ad that really has nothing to do with gummit subsidies either. Heck the government is already bankrupt so they keep on printing paper money and that drives the inflation spiral and I'm not gonna get into that on this forum anyway. All I know is, I'm fortunate I don't have a vehicle payment. Buying a new, extremely overpriced vehicle today is insane.

Sacrilege!
You mean you’re not gonna buy Cadillacs 2025 300,000 dollar ev?
Think of all the gasoline you’d save to say nothing of making Greta Thunberg happy.
I think we should all pitch in and buy her one as well.
I think either some ppl hate money or we are truly losing our minds.

Cadillac Celestiq will buy you a whole lot of opulence for $340K – take a look

GM has finally started production of its ultra-luxurious, all-electric Cadillac Celestiq, priced at an eye-watering $340,000. Take a look.

electrek.co

 

[tonys55]

Always remember, the government produces no tangible product, is the largest employer in the country and exists solely on your tax dollars which they spend with no regard for the very people that finance them and pay their salaries.

I think your statement speaks volumes about the fundamental issue we face when attempting to hold our government accountable. It's a giant layer of insulation. No one ever is held accountable because "the government is not a person". And agency heads are not elected officials. Until the news makers start investigating and shedding light on waste and fraud with names attached, this will continue.

To your point, if an agency doesn't spend all of its budget by the end of the fiscal year, the budget gets cut for the upcoming year. Which promotes lots of wasteful spending at year's end to prevent a cut. I understand there needs to be a cushion since an agency cannot cease operations if they run out of money. So why not forward any excess money into the next fiscal year, rather than blowing it? Augment that with the new fiscal money to keep the same budget amount. As years go by, the amount forwarded will trend in one direction or the other. If the forwarded amount consistently increases year to year, it's time for a budget cut. If the forwarding amount is trending downward, maybe it's time for a budget increase - post audit. And for an agency caught in the middle, there should be a general slush fund for all agencies to cover extenuating circumstances that force them to run out of money. Spending unused money should never be done to justify next year's budget. That is unethical at best.

 

[RolandW]

All of the dollars they spend are our dollars. The inflation we have felt recently is because they just "made up" more dollars we are on the hook for. All while making the one's they let us keep, have less and less value.

Correction: they used to be our dollars. Once a thief takes your money, it is no longer yours.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I dont believe that to be true. Making purchases with ill gotten money, is also a crime. Those purchases would be repossessed and the rightful owner of those funds reimbursed

 

[RolandW]

I can’t help but feel that eventually, the hybrid and electric vehicles/ machines, will improve to the degree that we will all wonder why we ever used fossil fuel machines in the first place.

I liken it to my first battery powered tool, a Mikita 9.6v drill. It was ok, but not that effective for serious drilling.
compare that to the Milwaukee Fuel drills I use today, and the fact that I haven’t taken my corded drill out of the cabinet in years, and that is where I think the vehicular future is headed.

Doubters and boomers may never go willingly, and Offer up specific examples of why they don’t/won’t buy in, but just as we reach for our cordless yard tools and robotic vacuum cleaners, we will wonder how we ever got along in the old days.

There are problems with your comment, among them:
- When it comes to drills, we are talking about replacing a corded drill with a battery-powered drill. If most cars today were electric and powered through extension cords, drivers would flock to battery cars as soon as they hit the market. Battery chainsaws are more appropriate to compare to EVs, since chainsaws have traditionally run on gas. I have several rechargables, and they're handy for cutting stuff that's a little too big for a lopper. But when I need to do serious cutting, I still get out my old Jonsered. Of course there are professional models that can do some pretty serious work, but as with EVs, they are very expensive.
- As far as I know, there have been no government prohibitions on corded drills or circular saws, no tax breaks for buying them, and no government billions allocated to expanding their "charging infrastructure." They have proven their superiority in the marketplace, where consumers have chosen to pay for them with their own money.
- Condescending labels like "doubters and boomers" will not win opponents over to your side. Electrification skeptics are not Luddites; they are rational thinkers who know a government scam when they see one.

 

[vallefarm]

I think most of the pro EV are missing the point. I have many vehicles most twenty years old or more, all road worthy, all diesel but for my 1979 cj7. My w126 diesel has 383,000 miles on it, I purchased a spare engine for it over a decade ago that sits unused in the barn corner shelf. Still runs like a clock, 30 + miles per gallon, admittedly third stereo as I do like more watts but a fantastic ride. I just bought a new Rav4 gas, tank is too small going to add in auxiliary gas tanks but not the hybrid. When I don't sell this thing in six or more years it will be worth six, eight, thirty thousand dollars more than the same EV used version that needs a new battery. Get it, the batteries don't last forever and will cost nearly as much to replace as a new vehicle. There will be no used market for these lawn ornaments. It costs more to recycle glass than to make new glass from raw materials same with batteries. A recycled battery will cost more and all recycling processes use and pollute water. Yes the water can be recovered but energy is consumed at every step and there is always waste produced that is usually toxic and has to be dealt with in a landfill. Don't just think short term five years think longer, harder. Lithium cells are efficient as how they are essentially "cells", compact wrapped foil divide paste electrolytes. Even the new chinese long strip batteries coming to the USA in 2025 have a big shortcoming, they are glued together, even more unserviceable. A disposable society is society that doesn't think about the future. Even if they finally realize the only answer for EVs are a five minute exchangeable, leased, refurbish able, gotcha by the nutz subscription plan the infrastructure will never be viable. There isn't enough copper, land for solar over people, food wildlife, power sources, resources, fire fighting equipment for electrical shorts, etc. The smart people already know this, that's why governments steal to push it. It's a gimmick, novelty to be left to history. A time in the past where shortsighted people wanted to feel good about themselves in the eyes if others without actually knowing the harm they were doing, aka woke. Ironically asleep in dreamland. Renewable is something that regrows, log fire places, alcohol ice (gas), fats and oils diesel, and bicycles or walk.

 

[RolandW]

Toyota is killing it with it's hybrids. The RAV4 Hybrid is definitely on our short list

We bought a Corolla Hybrid about a year ago, and while it can't touch the mileage I used to get with my '83 VW Jetta turbodiesel, we like it. It has way too many electronic bells and whistles, but that seems to be the case with all new cars now. It is all-wheel-drive, and that worked great when we got caught in a snowstorm a few weeks ago. Also, when sitting on the interstate for two hours that day, the engine only ran once in a while to keep the cabin warm.
Now we're looking at a Toyota Cross Hybrid (slightly smaller and cheaper than the RAV4) to replace our beater '09 Ford Focus. Toyota is switching its hybrids over to lithium-ion batteries, which is a bit worrisome. Both the Corolla and Cross now have them. Also, the AWD hybrids do not have a spare tire. They put a small electrical component for the rear drive motor smack in the center of the spare well, so there's no good place to put a spare even if you buy one. The one I got for the Corolla takes up a big chunk of the trunk space.

 

[RolandW]

Lotsa' good posts here. Hope mine is as good.
Wished the Gummit would just stay out of the 'lectric stuff.
We did not need them to get involved with cordless tools. They found a market all on their own. No tax paid rebates. No tax breaks. No free charging. And are doing very well for the most part. I don't think I know anyone who doesn't own at least one cordless tool.
There are places for I.C.E. and uncorded.
IF someone can use a cordless tractor then so be it.
If I could afford both tractors then maybe a cordless one too. But if just one, then me and my old diesel will be it.
I don't wanna see any business go down the tube and I hope they survive.
Let the free market decide.

Agreed, except that we should want some businesses to "go down the tube." When a business can't make a profit, it is a sign that they are not using resources as well as they should to satisfy consumer preferences. Their production is out of sync with what buyers want. They should, and must, be allowed to go bankrupt so the waste does not continue. Governments love to interfere in this by propping up misallocations of resources in pursuit of political goals.