Tractor Sizing ANother tractor sizing and capability question

[Rngr275]

Here is your typical what size tractor do I need question with as much detail as I can give. First, my typical buying of just about anything is to justify a purchase of bigger, better model, or more capability on a task that will only be done maybe once or twice. The majority of the time those bigger/better (and more $$$) capabilities are not needed. SO I am really trying not to repeat this habit with my purchase of a new (or maybe used) tractor.

We have a farm and raise rare breed field grazing pigs (KuneKune). The farm is 65 acres, with ~7 acres of pasture. Within the 7acres 2 acres is fenced in and subdivided for the pigs. The remaining 5 acres is pasture. The 7 acres was used for the previous owner痴 horses (carriage and work). All 7 acres is on a gently sloped hill. I also have a large garden that I will use the tractor for ~1/2 acre or so. Recommendations of what implements to use is always welcome

What I need the tractor for is to brush hog down the 5 acres a few times a year so that it doesn稚 become overgrown. I also need to do some ground work in the 2 acre fenced area. The pigs are grass grazing but still rut up the sod looking for grubs, worms, etc. I want to rotate the pigs out of one area to another then till/disc the rutted up area to give the grass/hay a chance to grow back. The last thing I will be using the tractor for is general stuff like: using the FEL when cleaning the barn, maybe some food plots for deer. I have a pretty big yard but I don稚 think I need a belly mower but I can稚 rule it out yet and there may be future snow removal (I currently use ATV with plow and a big snow blower. I was thinking of a back hoe but can稚 justify it for the 1-2 things I would like to do with it.

I am pretty certain I don稚 want a sub-compact as I don稚 want to get pigeon holed on what attachments I can use with it. I have 3-4 brands I am seriously looking into. In my mind right now I feel like I could get away with a compact tractor like a (just for reference and discussion at this point) LS J2023 or J2030 or maybe up to a G3033, Kioti something in the CK series (25,27,30), or Mahindra Max 25 or 28 and maybe 3016. These 3 manufactures are of interest to me. Do you think I am in the right range for power and attachment capability? Very interested in your feedback and as always I want to balance $$$ with performance and capabilities.
Thanks
McD

 

[Rngr275]

Chirp Chirp…. Let me rephrase:
Is a 20-25HP compact tractor big enough to use a 5-6" brush hog a few times a year on 5-6 acres of field?
Is a 20-25hp compact tractor able to handle a 4-5' tiller.
Is a tiller the best choice to use to break up turned over sod clumps for re-planting of the area.
Do most implements fit a compact tractors 3pt hitch (say from Tractor Supply, etc.)

I apologize for the lengthy initial post.
McD

 

[George2615]

Welcome to TBN...

I ran a 5' 3 pt. rotary cutter on a 26HP tractor with no problem. 20-25 HP should run everything you mentioned but for the size of your property I'd go bigger say 30-40HP for not much more money. I recently upgraded from a 2615 HST Mahindra (26HP) to an LS XR3037HC (36.5HP) for use on 2 small 5 acre properties plus side jobs for various uses. Mainly snow plowing in winter. As an Upstater you know what I mean. I guess it boils down to what will fit your budget too. All brands you mention have models that will do the job for you.
I'm partial to HST tractors but a gear model is less expensive and will get it done. I also just sold my 5' implements because they are too small for my XR which is 66" plus wide and 60" didn't cover my tracks. I'm shopping for some new implements too in the 6'-7' width such as a box blade, rake, post hole digger, Hydraulic thumb. I already have a 7'6" snow pusher blade, 66" loader bucket, QA forks, and just bought a dump trailer which I pick up tomorrow.

 

[motownbrowne]

If you're going to buy a new tractor, I'd offer the usual advice to size up a little bit. Relative to the overall price, the cost to upgrade to a larger size is minimal.

65 is a lot of acres. I'd want a 40hp at least. Hydro is great for most applications and most users. I don't think you'll be able to run a 6' cutter on a 20hp compact tractor. I don't think you'll have too much trouble finding implements for 25+ HP machines, no matter which way you go.

Let us know what you choose.

 

[newbury]

Chirp Chirp? Let me rephrase:
Is a 20-25HP compact tractor big enough to use a 5-6" brush hog a few times a year on 5-6 acres of field?
Is a 20-25hp compact tractor able to handle a 4-5' tiller.
Is a tiller the best choice to use to break up turned over sod clumps for re-planting of the area.
Do most implements fit a compact tractors 3pt hitch (say from Tractor Supply, etc.)

I apologize for the lengthy initial post.
McD

What is this HP you write of? 20-25 at the engine or the PTO?

Quickly, if your talking 25 at the PTO the answers are barely, barely, yes, yes.
"rules of thumb" for cutters and tillers are 5HP/foot at the PTO
However a NEW tiller is expensive.

What is the absolute biggest thing you think you might have to carry?
A large KuneKune? (say 250lbs)
A half ton of feed?
A 10' log 24" DBH (about a ton)?

Make sure you get something that will lift that weight on the end you need to lift it on. If you have to move a ton of feed on a pallet you often can do that on the 3pt. If you have to scoop up a ton of gravel in the FEL that requires about twice the tractor.

I bought my B7610 (23 engine/18 PTO HP) in 2009 as a "training" tractor, it works fairly well but I also got my M4700 (51/42 HP) last year to do "real" work because in between I and SWMBO acquired several more hundred acres of land that I'm about to put it to use on. If I had planned on sticking with one tractor I would have bought something much bigger than I needed at first.

From the few chores you mention I think a 35/30HP tractor would be the minimum and a 45/35 pretty much ideal

 

[jeff9366]

We have a farm and raise rare breed field grazing pigs (KuneKune). The farm is 65 acres, with ~7 acres of pasture. Within the 7acres 2 acres is fenced in and subdivided for the pigs. The remaining 5 acres is pasture.

I also need to do some ground work in the 2 acre fenced area. The pigs are grass grazing but still rut up the sod looking for grubs, worms, etc. I want to rotate the pigs out of one area to another then till/disc the rutted up area to give the grass/hay a chance to grow back. The last thing I will be using the tractor for is general stuff like: using the FEL when cleaning the barn, maybe some food plots for deer. I have a pretty big yard but I don't think I need a belly mower but I cannot rule it out yet and there may be future snow removal (I currently use ATV with plow and a big snow blower. I was thinking of a back hoe but cannot justify it for the 1-2 things I would like to do with it.

Most grazing animals, like cattle and horses, compact the subsoil into a brick so that a plow (turning plow or Chisel Plow) or something like a Hay King Pasture Renovator are necessary for a thorough rejuvenation. I do not know about grazing pigs, something new to me. If you rotate the pigs often enough, and I do not know if the would be quarterly, twice per year, or annually, I would think a Disc Harrow with 20" diameter notched blades would serve to prepare your soil for reseeding with pasture grass as well for tilling your garden and scratching in food plots. I believe a roto-tiller would overwork the soil so it would be airless.

In the pig pasture; do you have long standing water after a heavy rain, or does the soil still drain?

A Disc Harrow and a Cultipacker are the two "go to" implements for food plots.

What are you doing with the other 58 acres? Do you have a dumping trailer for the ATV?

If you get a heavy enough tractor a Bucket Spade or Ratchet Rake "Rip & Dig" can substitute for 65% of what a Backhoe does.

Bucket Spade LINK:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...da-planting-sand-pears-kubota.html?highlight=

 

[jeff9366]

Do most implements fit a compact tractors 3pt hitch? (say from Tractor Supply, etc.)

Most tractors have a Category 1 Three Point Hitch. TSC sells "yellow" implements for Category 1.

You may want a tractor with a heavier Category 2 Three Point Hitch for 75 acres.

Tractor implements of all kinds are readily available via the web, with common carrier truck delivery.

Our friends Ted and Travis at EverythingAttachments.com (ETA) are an important source:

LINK:

Tractor Attachments And Skid Steer Attachments For Any Tractor Or Skid Steer


{You do NOT want a tractor with the smaller Category 0 Three Point Hitch. TSC sells "red" implements for Category 0.}

LINK:

TractorData.com - Three-Point Hitch

 

[Rngr275]

Thanks for the replys
To answer your questions:
The other 58acres are wooda with some roads (logging roads but made by the Amish who lived there before using horses and what ever).

I was talking of 20-25hp of engine HP which is obviously more than the PTO HP.

We buy large square bales and moving the around whole instead of breaking them apart would be nice... bales weigh ~ 700lbs.

I only have a small lawn mower dump cart at this time.

There are only ~ 10 pigs in the field(s). They dig their snouts just under the sod and flip it over looking for grubs and such and eat the grass on top. The clumps of sod need to be broken apart and smoothed out so I can replant or not. I am afraid that grass will grow in the over turned spot and they will do the same thing and the field will get more and more roughed up. Makes it very hard to just walk in.

The is no standing water except where I have diverted an artsian sprin down through the field for wallows in the summer. That was why I was thinking of getting a back hoe also. I want to more control the water flow and sort of contain it in a shallow ditch/trench and dig some small shallow wallows. But after that I won't have much use for the back hoe. So I might rent one or try that bucket spade or maybe a potatoe plow. Doesn't need to be deep.

Going shopping this weeked. Starting with the closest dealer (Kioti) then working out over the next few weeks.

Any other ideas for shallow trench and making shallow wallows (mini pig pools as my kids call them)?

Thanks much for you inputs.

McD

 

[NICKB304]

I would really look into something along the lines of kioti DK40-50, Kubota Grand L or mx series, LS R40 series, Mahindra 40-50hp. those are kind of the sweet spot for a small farm tractor. get a cab right off the bat if you can afford it. I wish I would have done that from the start.

 

[newbury]

Thanks for the replys
To answer your questions:
The other 58acres are wooda with some roads (logging roads but made by the Amish who lived there before using horses and what ever).

W/ 58 acres of woods your going to have logs, to make money off them someone will have to move them, as firewood, whole log, or cut lumber.
Need more HP.

I was talking of 20-25hp of engine HP which is obviously more than the PTO HP.

We buy large square bales and moving the around whole instead of breaking them apart would be nice... bales weigh ~ 700lbs.

You can move them w/ 3PTS on most 20HP + tractors, FELS on 30HP+.

I only have a small lawn mower dump cart at this time.

There are only ~ 10 pigs in the field(s). They dig their snouts just under the sod and flip it over looking for grubs and such and eat the grass on top. The clumps of sod need to be broken apart and smoothed out so I can replant or not. I am afraid that grass will grow in the over turned spot and they will do the same thing and the field will get more and more roughed up. Makes it very hard to just walk in.

Other threads here have recommended clearing land with goats followed by pigs. Then go in and disc. Just discing might be a good option.

The is no standing water except where I have diverted an artsian sprin down through the field for wallows in the summer. That was why I was thinking of getting a back hoe also. I want to more control the water flow and sort of contain it in a shallow ditch/trench and dig some small shallow wallows. But after that I won't have much use for the back hoe. So I might rent one or try that bucket spade or maybe a potatoe plow. Doesn't need to be deep.

Probably could do it with a FEL and tooth bar or a dirt scoop

Going shopping this weeked. Starting with the closest dealer (Kioti) then working out over the next few weeks.

Any other ideas for shallow trench and making shallow wallows (mini pig pools as my kids call them)?

Thanks much for you inputs.

McD

When you start really moving dirt there is no replacement for displacement.

The tiller is a great thing. It does what a plow and disc does all at once, but it's expensive.

Think of scrambling eggs
If you don't eat eggs you don't worry.
If you have a few scrambled occasionally you use a fork or whisk.
If you cook them a lot you get an eggbeater.

The tiller is the eggbeater.

Also DO NOT FAIL TO CHECK OUT Barlow's and Messick's.
Barlow's has a STRONG following on here and even including shipping often can beat local prices.
Messick's is also great and has (had?) a sweet looking DK45S for $19K.

 

[jeff9366]

I agree with the other responders here that you need to consider a heavier tractor with a little more than 25 horsepower. I owned a light-frame Kubota B3300SU tractor/loader with 33 horsepower. It was an excellent machine to learn on but after awhile I was operating it at the margin of safety too much of the time. Now I have a Kubota L3560 tractor/loader which only has 35 horsepower but weighs 2,000 pounds more than the B3300SU and has considerably larger tires. This is a medium size but HEAVY FRAME compact tractor. I feel much safer doing the same tasks as before because this machine, due largely to its weight, is so much more stable and capable.

Every tractor brand you are considering has an entry in this segment.

Disc Harrows are clump breaking implements. When farmers plowed in the Fall the ground sat over the winter and the plow furrows/clumps partially broke down with freeze/thaw cycles. Then a Disc Harrow was used to further reduce furrows/clumps, often with a drag harrow being towed behind to ready the ground for seed. Today, only a few people plow, mostly in the north, because no-till with Roundup is a lot cheaper than running a tractor over fields multiple times. But a suffeciently heavy Disc Harrow is probably what you want for chopping up snout clumps.

To me, a full pasture renovation means breaking the soil at least 6" deep, using a plow, a subsoiler, a Hay King pasture renovator or some other tool that will break up sub-surface hard pan so water will drain and fertilizer reach the root zone. As you do not report standing water, it does not seem you need "renovation". You can probably just fertilize/lime, disc, drag, re-seed and roll.

For shallow trenching a Ratchet Rake "Rip & Dig" for the FEL is probably a good option. A Bucket Spade is better for planting trees and shrubs but is too wide for trenching. You could use the Rip & Dig for the wallows or take it off and use just the FEL bucket. If a potato plow is sufficient, go with that.

You have not said much about your wooded land, which is a large part of your property. For tearing out brush and for minor road/track grading Ratchet Rake's "Ratchet Rake" another bucket attachment, is hard to beat.

What is in your future? You cannot justify a big expenditure on equipment for ten piggies, unless they are pets or unless the equipment is a hobby/recreation. {T-B-N has many participants who have $60,000 of recreational tractor and implements.}

Take your time; shop.

Disc Harrow Selection LINK:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/308251-disc-harrow-selection-18-45-a.html?highlight=

Ratchet Rake, LLC, LINK:

Ratchet Rake, LLC - Rip and Dig, All Terrain Rake, Snow Edge, Tractor attachment, Bucket attachment, Loader, Skid loader, Kubota, Skid steer, Landscape rake, Brush remover, York Rake, Harley Rake, Rock Rake, Tractor rake attachment, Construction attac

 

[MESSMAKER]

I think you are pretty close to what you will need. A 25-35 hp tractor that weighs in at somewhere around 3000lbs will get the job done. A rotary cutter,loader and box blade would be handy. A good disk harrow will help for some of it but will be nearly useless after you get things the way you want them. Maybe you could rent or borrow one.

 

[vnbcat]

the Kioti and Mahindra appear to be relatively heavy for their size - you can add ballast but that only solves one of the problems with lighter tractors - it does not make the tractor frame/structure stronger which is sometimes what is needed - no mention is made of 4WD but that is helpful for FEL work as well as power steering which is nearly always a standard right now - the lack of power steering and heavy front end frames/structure and weak hydraulics are typical downsides of older tractors along with weak hydraulics - while all of us want the biggest thing we can afford - what you don't want is something too big that you don't have maneuvering space - but from the description of your property, it appears that you ought to be ok in that regard - one of my friends has a 35-40 HP tractor with hydro and he says it is useless to try plowing with it since so much of the power is wasted in the transmission - so he uses an old tractor with stick - unfortunately most smaller tractors don't have power shift - which is really the way to go - some of the more utility designed tractors will have shuttle shift - this is really nice for using the FEL and is highly recommended if FEL is a good portion of the work you will be doing...the 2 main things in this selection is to (1) work within budget and (2) get the most tractor/implements that will fit in the space where you will be operating and (3) comfort/ease of use - try them out - a little seat time never hurt anybody...not many users ever complain about having too much power - van

 

[vnbcat]

I like HST for ease of use and changing ground speed independent of other activity - but typically they won't pull nearly as hard nor as much as a stick or powershift
van