any downside to hst?

[JimR]

MossRoad makes a good point about tractor owners. I used to have a Ford 8N. I had it for many years. I would never ever ever consider going back to a geared machine after buying my Cub with HST. When I think of all the times I had to ice my left knee from using the clutch on the 8N for hours on end. Just thinking about it makes me relive those days of agony.

 

[Soundguy]

You do bring up a good point. I mow flat open land. Very few trees to dodge.. and the ones there are grouped.. so I only have to dodge the stand... and it's big enought to make a pass around and then just cut like normal.

As for the heavy brush and multi flora and 1.5" stuff.. Just need more hp and a tough mower.. then you can keep going the same speed (grin).

Once i enter my pasture, i engage the pto,set rpm, let the clutch out and go. My feet don't see the clutch or brake again till the pasture is done a couple hours later., baring of course, something running in front of the tractor.. or an unexpected piece of debri someone has donated to my pasture.

Soundguy

Here's something I've noticed over the years here at TBN...
When someone mentions brush hogging and gear tractors in the same breath, they usually mean field mowing, as they talk about constant speed and cruise control.... "set it in the correct gear and go." When I talk about brush hogging, I'm going through thick, nasty brush, not tall grass. Multiflora roses, saplings, 1.5" trees, uneven ground, etc... it is constant speed and direction changes. I couldn't pick a gear for more than a few feet and have to stop and change speeds. Plus, I need full power to the brush hog, so I need the engine RPMs up at max all the time anyway. I would like to see someone with a gear tractor brush hog the places I do and then do it again with an HST tractor. Do that for a couple hours and see which unit did more work, AND how tired the operator is after two hours on each tranny type. On the other hand, brush hogging grass in a field, if you have cruise control, would probably be just as easy with and HST.

 

[Soundguy]

MossRoad makes a good point about tractor owners. I used to have a Ford 8N. I had it for many years. I would never ever ever consider going back to a geared machine after buying my Cub with HST. When I think of all the times I had to ice my left knee from using the clutch on the 8N for hours on end. Just thinking about it makes me relive those days of agony.

I look forward to the clutch on my 8n.. it's the easiest one I've got.

The clutch on my 660 is 2 stage, and the pedal stands almost as tall as your knee ( by design.. go figure.. )... Not hard to press.. but tall.

Now my ford 5000 and NH 7610s.. they will make you a tad tired holding the clutch down.. Good thing they have independent pto...


Soundguy

 

[Doc_Bob]

I look forward to the clutch on my 8n.. it's the easiest one I've got.

The clutch on my 660 is 2 stage, and the pedal stands almost as tall as your knee ( by design.. go figure.. )... Not hard to press.. but tall.

Now my ford 5000 and NH 7610s.. they will make you a tad tired holding the clutch down.. Good thing they have independent pto...


Soundguy

My TN70A Power shuttle takes the work out of clutching forward/reverse. No pain at all. Very easy.
Bob

 

[PineRidge]

One other thing I've noticed here on TBN... most folks that do similar tasks to what I do that now have HST and formerly had GEAR would not go back to GEAR if given the choice. I think that says a lot given the vast amount of hours of experience all those users have, when combined.

I hear ya! That's me Moss.

 

[AutoUnionTypeC]

Originally Posted by MossRoad
Here's something I've noticed over the years here at TBN...
When someone mentions brush hogging and gear *******s in the same breath, they usually mean field mowing, as they talk about constant speed and cruise control.... "set it in the correct gear and go." When I talk about brush hogging, I'm going through thick, nasty brush, not tall grass. Multiflora roses, saplings, 1.5" trees, uneven ground, etc... it is constant speed and direction changes. I couldn't pick a gear for more than a few feet and have to stop and change speeds. Plus, I need full power to the brush hog, so I need the engine RPMs up at max all the time anyway. I would like to see someone with a gear ******* brush hog the places I do and then do it again with an HST *******. Do that for a couple hours and see which unit did more work, AND how tired the operator is after two hours on each tranny type. On the other hand, brush hogging grass in a field, if you have cruise control, would probably be just as easy with and HST.

Moss,
You make some excellent points in favor of a hydro transmission. That's the kind of stuff a prospective buyer needs to hear. As you know hydro is best for your situation I feel gear is best for my own. Obviously a case can be made for both given the particular circumstances. Yours is the best case for hydro I heard/read yet, nevertheless I still feel hydro is a bit oversold in general. In most cases I think it’s probably a neat but unnecessary tool that comes with a price that is very little discussed or even understood in many cases.

Regards, Jamie

 

[Dargo]

I hear ya! That's me Moss.

Yup, me too. At first I simply had no desire for that "new" hydro thing. I mean, my gosh, I was getting along just fine with my gear tractors. When I heard that they actually cost more, well, that closed the deal; I stayed gear...for a while. Then I actually drove one and used one. Big mistake.

It's sort of like my grandparents saying that they got along just fine before the advent of refrigerators and air conditioning in a house or even indoor plumbing. However, after having those things, even though they did indeed cost a bit more, it made it a non-issue which was the way to go. I've made a 180 turn on my opinion of hydro tractors. The ONLY advantage I see at all to a gear tractor is that they would get a bit better fuel economy. But, if that small amount of extra money you'd spend on diesel fuel would break you, you have other more serious issues you need to address.

 

[JerryG]

Manual transmissions have changed a lot in the last 20 years. There are manuals that can and are as easy to drive as any Hydro. With the introduction of Shuttle, PowerShuttle, PowerShift, DynaQPS and CVT transmissions, no longer are you locked in to a crash box version of a manual transmission, as it would seem from this thread. Some of these transmissions don’t need to be clutched to be able to shift, start and stop or even change directions. They cost less than a hydro, suck less power and have fewer soft parts to eventually need to be replaced. They are also much easier to repair should the need be.

 

[john_bud]

Manual transmissions have changed a lot in the last 20 years. There are manuals that can and are as easy to drive as any Hydro. With the introduction of Shuttle, PowerShuttle, PowerShift, DynaQPS and CVT transmissions, no longer are you locked in to a crash box version of a manual transmission, as it would seem from this thread. Some of these transmissions don’t need to be clutched to be able to shift, start and stop or even change directions. They cost less than a hydro, suck less power and have fewer soft parts to eventually need to be replaced. They are also much easier to repair should the need be.

Jerry,

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this point, but it may be out of my ignorance. My understanding is that the repair costs are about the same across the board. Labor to split is about the same and labor to repair is about the same. Now, that is just my understanding (which has been proven wrong before!). You sound knowledgable, do you have book time and repair parts costs to support your statement? I would be curious to see how they very from my understanding.

From looking at the kubota repair manual for the GST, it is pretty much the same "guts" as an automatic transmission, just with lots more ratios. But it has, IMHO, much more complexity than the HST.

Oddly enough, when I bought the HST the GST was priced $150 higher than the GST.

Who would have thought that such good discusion would come from a simple question? "any downside to hst?"

jb

 

[JerryG]

John,
I don't have ready access to a price book any more, but from talking to friends that are still in the business the cost for rough tear down is about the same across the board for similar size and make of tractors. Where the costs start adding up different is the labor for internal repairs as well as for the parts. One reason that the parts are more costly is because assemblies have to be changed at a higher rate when a problem occurs compared to the ability to change single defective parts in the vast majority of manual variations. The GST seems to be a very dependable hybrid transmission. It does have a higher internal labor costs than most other types of manual transmissions seemingly because of the variation.

To all.
I would like to say that I have absolutely no problem with anyone that prefers to own and operate a hydro. There are many different transmissions available for several reasons. One of them is owner preference. A person has to be comfortable with what they operate. If the transmission makes them uncomfortable for any reason, then they have the wrong transmission. It doesn’t matter if it is manual or hydro or somewhere in between. Uncomfortable is uncomfortable. Just as there is no one ideal model for everyone there is no one ideal transmission for everyone. The one and only reason that I am posting to this thread is because this thread could lead a prospective buyer to believe that the modern manual transmission tractor is the same as it was in the 1950s and before. Given the advancements in manual transmissions in the last twenty years, there are hardly any similarities in the more advanced models, when compared to the original crash box transmissions. The more advanced ones are very easy to operate to the point of being rivals to the best hydros in the market. Chose whichever one you are comfortable with but don’t think that modern manual transmissions are from the rock age.