Any news on gas engine CUTS?

[tduby]

since a lot of people are going to Korean built tractors to save a few grand off the price of new tractors I think if you could save a few thousand getting a cheaper engine a lot of guys would jump for it. granted tier 4 is new in tractors but it has been around a while in trucks and I doubt you will find a person who will say anything good about it. And if you look at the medium duty trucks Ford started offering their V10 gas engines for this very reason. I know very few true farmers will ever buy a gas but to those of us who are lucky to put on 200 hours a year a gas engine in smaller tractors makes a lot of sense.

 

[buickanddeere]

uh, Mr. B&D....I am a Mechanical Engineer with 30 years in the industry designing the things.

Given the number of engineers I have dealt with in the nuclear industry that just never seem to get a grasp and understanding of an issue. It's fair to say that there are some mechanical engineers that are more theoretical minded than practical as well.

 

[buickanddeere]

M

A good comparison would be the 900cc engine in my Kubota BX. Its rated at 23 hp. I looked up a 900 cc engine in a Honda motorcycle, it was rated at 97 hp. No comparison right? Why not use gas? For one thing, take the motorcycle engine and run it near 100% power output, then run the diesel engine in my BX at 100% power. I don't have any numbers but I'm sure the diesel will outlast the motorcycle engine several times over.

One thing to keep in mind, say in a motorcycle design, weight is a huge factor. Same thing with cars, airplanes, chainsaws, weed eaters and many other items and that's why gas engines are used. They make more power for a given engine weight.

Now take a tractor. People add front weight, they load the tires, light weight isn't a factor. Say my BX needs to be 30 hp. Cheaper and easier just to bump up the displacement since a little extra weight isn't a bad thing. There is a reason over the road trucks, tractors, construction equipment all use diesel engines. In high load, high hour applications, they last longer and are more fuel efficient.

I saw a large Cat Challenger, this sucker must have had several thousand pounds of iron hanging off it to bump up the weight. I'm sure you could design a gas engine to power the thing, it would be much lighter also but what would you gain?

Now in SCUTS and CUTS, might gas engines make them cheaper and be just as good? I can't say.

Just can't get people to understand the difference between gasoline engines , Diesel engines, light and heavy duty use.
Every time some dreamer drags out the motor cycle engine in a tractor state which is the height of foolishness and demonstrates a clear lack of understanding.
Last time & looked at a gas 4020 JD engine it operated at very similar HP, torque , rpm and displacement of the diesel.
Anybody here that doesn't understand part throttle fuel efficiency of diesels. Take a look at the Nebraska tracror tests at part load. Yes, part load where small yard, construction and light highway applications occur. Part load or light duty operation such as cars, trucks, lawn tractors, atv's , most small boats etc. The gasser uses less fuel when putting around at 10-50% power than a diesel does. Don't bother bringing up old stories of a 350 carburated chev vs a 6BT Cummins either . That was 25 years ago . The DI gasssers are now besting the Tier IV diesel in pickups.We are talking about Tier IV diesels in 2015 putting around in light duty applications.
Not every application is what you think of where the engine is making 85-100% power for 6-18Hrs per day ploughing or pumping water. In such applications where the diesel was designed for , of course even the stifled Tier IV diesel is better than the gasser when running at near 100% power .where thermal efficiency isn't being lost up the stack with excess air. Diesel while priced much higher than gasoline does contain more btu's of energy per gallon.
Today's DI gassers are very close to diesel thermal efficiency per btu of fuel with the 12 to 1 expansion ratio .
Dream as you wish but your pickup or CUT is not a He Man application.

 

[DK35vince]

All I know is I have a 35HP diesel tractor and a 35HP gas powered zero turn.
Mowing my lawn with the 35HP diesel tractor I'm averaging around 1,25 gal/hour fuel.
Mowing the same lawn my 35HP gas Z turn averages around 2 gal/hour.

 

[buickanddeere]

Tell that to the people who have been paying me to clean out their carbs after they sit for a few months!

Not a problem here. I purchase clean fresh premium gasoline and store equipment with the carb drained and the fuel tank full.

 

[buickanddeere]

All I know is I have a 35HP diesel tractor and a 35HP gas powered zero turn.
Mowing my lawn with the 35HP diesel tractor I'm averaging around 1,25 gal/hour fuel.
Mowing the same lawn my 35HP gas Z turn averages around 2 gal/hour.

Price difference between gasoline and diesel fuel ?
Cold weather starting of diesel vs gas?
Gelling of diesel fuel in winter ?
Cost to service that emissions diesel at the dealership?
How many hours and years to break even on the extra cost of the diesel option over gas by "saving fuel"?
With the exception of the 0.5% of diesel pickups hauling 20,000-26,000 pounds for 25,000 miles a year. Diesel doesn't pay in pickup anymore after the EPA ruined the diesel.
It's 2015, not 1989.

 

[buickanddeere]

All I know is I have a 35HP diesel tractor and a 35HP gas powered zero turn.
Mowing my lawn with the 35HP diesel tractor I'm averaging around 1,25 gal/hour fuel.
Mowing the same lawn my 35HP gas Z turn averages around 2 gal/hour.

Price difference between gasoline and diesel fuel ?
Cold weather starting of diesel vs gas?
Gelling of diesel fuel in winter ?
Cost to service that emissions diesel at the dealership?
How many hours and years to break even on the extra cost of the diesel option over gas by "saving fuel"?
With the exception of the 0.5% of diesel pickups hauling 20,000-26,000 pounds for 25,000 miles a year. Diesel doesn't pay in pickup anymore after the EPA ruined the diesel.
It's 2015, not 1989.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Price difference between gasoline and diesel fuel ?
Cold weather starting of diesel vs gas?
Gelling of diesel fuel in winter ?
Cost to service that emissions diesel at the dealership?
How many hours and years to break even on the extra cost of the diesel option over gas by "saving fuel"?
With the exception of the 0.5% of diesel pickups hauling 20,000-26,000 pounds for 25,000 miles a year. Diesel doesn't pay in pickup anymore after the EPA ruined the diesel.
It's 2015, not 1989.

Are we talking tractors or pickups???

I have several tractors in both, gas and diesel. My modern diesels start better in the winter than my gas tractors and on the diesels, I don't have to drain the carb ect.. ect.. when I let them set, even for months they crank right up! AND some DO sit for months, especially in the winter...

I buy my diesel from the pumps in the winter, I've never had it gell, I've never got bad diesel either... As for price... Today gas is $2.09, farm diesel is $2.48, not really that much different...especially when my diesels use a LOT less of it... When it comes to storing fuel, diesel stores MUCH better than todays gas!

I don't take tractors to a dealership to be serviced... I do it myself and the difference between gas/diesel is, the diesel motors "generally" hold a few more quarts of oil.....that's it. If they made a gas powered tractor today, with a HD engine, the oil pan would probably be the same size as a diesel has, as all that oil helps with engine cooling too...

In a tractor, i'd take a diesel EVERY time over any gas motor!

SR

 

[dusty3030]

Are we talking tractors or pickups???

I have several tractors in both, gas and diesel. My modern diesels start better in the winter than my gas tractors and on the diesels, I don't have to drain the carb ect.. ect.. when I let them set, even for months they crank right up! AND some DO sit for months, especially in the winter...

I buy my diesel from the pumps in the winter, I've never had it gell, I've never got bad diesel either... As for price... Today gas is $2.09, farm diesel is $2.48, not really that much different...especially when my diesels use a LOT less of it... When it comes to storing fuel, diesel stores MUCH better than todays gas!

I don't take tractors to a dealership to be serviced... I do it myself and the difference between gas/diesel is, the diesel motors "generally" hold a few more quarts of oil.....that's it. If they made a gas powered tractor today, with a HD engine, the oil pan would probably be the same size as a diesel has, as all that oil helps with engine cooling too...

In a tractor, i'd take a diesel EVERY time over any gas motor!

SR

No carb, put modern Tier 4 diesel 35 hp compact tractor versus a modern fuel injected gas engine 35 hp compact tractor in your mind. The latter doesn't exist but in atv's or UTV's I will say for certain that a modern fuel injected small gas engine is a different beast than a carb engine. They start easier and can be left longer with less ill effect.

 

[davesl708]

As to gas/diesel. I had 1 acre of 12" grass to cut. The JD with 22hp and 42" deck would not cut it without crawling along at a snails pace.
I got out the Kubota with 22hp diesel and a 60" deck. The Kubota cut at a fast walking pace and never bogged down. Cutting at 4" high with both mowers, the Kubota cut more grass in less time with less effort.