Any Plumbers? Help with tank sweat needed.

[Scooby074]

I have a major issue with tank sweat and need some major advise.

Im on a well with a softener. The softener is in a finished room. The softener has a pool of water under it after a regen or running alot of water. Its literally coming off it in sheets. There are no water leaks. Well, jet pump, pressure tank and HW tank are in the same, unfinished utility room.

Conditions in the room are as follows.

Ambient air temperature: 19.6 C

Inside Humidity: 45%

Exterior Humidity:92%

Softener tank exterior temperature: 13.6 c

Pressure tank ext: 14 c

And perhaps the most important temperature, the cast iron casing of the jet pump after running water for several minutes : 10.3C

So my input water is quite cool.

Im trying to rig up a tempering system like you'd do for a toilet, but in my case for the entire house.

I think ill use the Honeywell AM1 valve.

Heres a diagram of what i propose. Im a bit concerned of Listeria and would like to know if this will be an issue. I plan on having the mixed water a few degrees warmer than room temperature, say 26*C or so.

Will this idea work? Are there any suggestions (other than a dehumidifier) ?

 

[Chilly807]

I think if it were me, I'd try to raise the softener tank a bit and put a drain pan under it with a hose to a bucket you can dump every few days.

I understand the problem you're having, ours sweats too, but I can see two issues... one is injecting hot water into your drinking water stream (I'm guessing your HW tank has an anode rod?), and secondly the cost of using HW every time you run the well pump.

Sean

 

[Army grunt]

Insulate the tank.Also all lines that get wet.
Army Grunt

 

[Brad_Blazer]

+1 insulation. Install it carefully at the top so you don't have condensation getting under the insulation.

Your tempering proposal will use a lot of energy and who wants a glass of lukewarm water out of the tap?

 

[Kays Supply]

The hot water will need to be pumped or you will need a venturi injector to get it into the cold. Like other say, isulation is an option. The spray on type would keep the sweat from getting under it. If you had room, a large holding tank to temper the water is also an option. Also a coil like in an air conditioner before the tanks with a fan to put the cool into your home. Also solar preheat for economy. This should get the replys a popping.

 

[Scooby074]

Thanks for the replies.

A pan under the tank was going to happen, i just forgot to mention it. Will a condensate pump work in this situation to keep the pan empty? How close will they pump to the bottom of the pan?

Insulation: I planned on insulating the pipes. The tank on the other hand concerned me do to the contours and the fact that if its not sealed correctly ill end up with water under the insulation.. Bad. Sprayfoam would work and might be the best solution but $$$. Ill have to ask about it.

What about the bubble wrap Mylar style insulation as opposed to fiberglashttp://www.radiantbarrier.com/bubble-foil-insulation.htm? Wont absorb water. Are there any preformed blankets for softeners, like you'd see for a HW tank? Not only would i have to insulate my resin tank, id also have to insulate my brine tank, although it doesnt sweat nearly as much as the resin.

Kays: Are you familiar with this valve? Product
In the diagrams there is a pump on a recirculation circuit. Is that circuit required for operation or is it just there to increase efficiency?

Interesting idea on the cooler! I hadent thought of that. Id still end up with a bunch of condensate water to deal with... just maybe in one spot instead of several. A holding tank wont work as im pretty tight for space.

Im not so concerned with wasting hot water, as i cant see it using all that much to temper the cold.. but even if it does waste water something has to be done before mold takes over!

 

[richamor]

Would a de-humidifier in the room help?

 

[Kays Supply]

The recirculating pump is to maintain hot water to multiple locations in a large building. The tempering valve you listed is to maintain a lower temperature at lavatorys. Kitchens and cleanup need hotter water that is unsafe for lavatorys. You need a pump and a manual or auto system to add hot water to your incoming line. A valve the size of your main line may be pretty pricey. If you go smaller your flow to the house will be less than you may like. You can buy spray foam kits that are do-it-yourself type. Be sure and mask everything not to be foamed. It WON'T come off.

 

[Scooby074]

The recirculating pump is to maintain hot water to multiple locations in a large building. The tempering valve you listed is to maintain a lower temperature at lavatorys. Kitchens and cleanup need hotter water that is unsafe for lavatorys. You need a pump and a manual or auto system to add hot water to your incoming line. A valve the size of your main line may be pretty pricey. If you go smaller your flow to the house will be less than you may like. You can buy spray foam kits that are do-it-yourself type. Be sure and mask everything not to be foamed. It WON'T come off.

Right, I understand the valve is designed as a safety valve to lower hot water temps for lavs. Im trying to adapt the valve to work on the cold side to RAISE the temp of the cold water to prevent condensation.

You dont think it will mix properly without a pump? Main line size is 3/4". The valve i linked to should be 3/4 as well.

Im probably going to have to add a dehumidifier on top of these other measures.

any tips on how to drain a softener resin tank? I have a pan to put under it but the darn thing must weigh 400lbs with all the water and resin in it.

I also bought some bubble wrap insulation to put around it.

 

[Kays Supply]

It should work. However, it will only help on the softener tank. Do the math, is it worth the price and effort for just that tank ?

 

[Kays Supply]

Is there a way to use the well water run through a coil and returned to the well?It wouldn't take much flow. A 1\2" line or even smaller. A fan blowing through it would act as a dehumidifier and cool the room close to the water temp, stopping the sweating. You could use a AC thermostat to control it. When the room reaches water temp, it shuts off the water flow and the fan. You are going to need to drain off a dehumidifier anyway. The condensate from coil would be the same as the dehumidifier.

 

[Scooby074]

Is there a way to use the well water run through a coil and returned to the well?It wouldn't take much flow. A 1\2" line or even smaller. A fan blowing through it would act as a dehumidifier and cool the room close to the water temp, stopping the sweating. You could use a AC thermostat to control it. When the room reaches water temp, it shuts off the water flow and the fan. You are going to need to drain off a dehumidifier anyway. The condensate from coil would be the same as the dehumidifier.

Another interesting idea. But well, pump, PT and HW are in utiity room while the softener tank is in the next room, a finished laundry room, 15' away. Mounting a coil in the LR to cool it wouldnt fly with the Mrs and would be physically difficult.

I mounted a pan under the softener tank... boy was that fun! So at least now the condensate wont soak into the drywall. Hope to insulate with bubble warp tomorrow.

As to cost, valve was $80 and copper would have been $30. If i could fix this issue and prevent mold for <$150 its money well spent. Ripping apart the LR to fix mold wouldn't win me any favours with the Mrs. Im not too concerned with the PT, pump and pipes sweating a bit in the util room as theyre on a pan so the water just evaporates eventually.

 

[adjusterr]

Not a big deal! What you have is the cold water from your well, subjected to the warm humid air in the tank area, causing condensation. Solution, at least for me, was to insulate the tank and lines, be sure to do the top of the tank. I used standard house insulation and spray adhesive, works perfectly.

 

[CurlyDave]

Way back when I was a teen I was a summer helper in a water treatment plant.

All of the vessels were insulated to prevent sweating and it worked very well. Back then the insulation was ground up cork mixed with glue and adhered to the outside of steel tanks. Spray on foam is probably better and less costly.