JerryG
Super Member
Not being rude to anyone, but LittleBear asked about a utility tractor. There are lots of compacts, PTs and other things that would go in the door. I don't know what he wants to do with it, but that is what he was asking about.
Any Utility size tractors with short ROPS?
- Thread starter LittleBear
- Start date
- Views: 3203
KentT
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 2,928
- Location
- Sevierville, TN
- Tractor
- 1993 Power Trac 1430 w/Kubota diesel engine
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Not being rude to anyone, but LittleBear asked about a utility tractor. There are lots of compacts, PTs and other things that would go in the door. I don't know what he wants to do with it, but that is what he was asking about. )</font>
I understand what he asked about. But, IMO, the distinctions between utility, CUT, and Sub-CUT are not all that clear, and subject to a lot of variability between manufacturers and confusion among consumers. That is why I specified the size of the two examples, I used. Plus, the limited choices he's finding to meet his criteria might just justify a little "thinking outside the box..." That's all I was trying to stimulate.
If my response somehow offended someone, or is considered a waste of bandwidth, I apologize.
I understand what he asked about. But, IMO, the distinctions between utility, CUT, and Sub-CUT are not all that clear, and subject to a lot of variability between manufacturers and confusion among consumers. That is why I specified the size of the two examples, I used. Plus, the limited choices he's finding to meet his criteria might just justify a little "thinking outside the box..." That's all I was trying to stimulate.
If my response somehow offended someone, or is considered a waste of bandwidth, I apologize.
MikePA
Super Moderator
<font color="blue"> I realize that the tractor makers are listening to their laywers and making the ROPS so tall that the tractor can fall on it's side but it will not actually roll over. </font>
ROPS stands for RollOver Protective Structure, not RollOver Prevention System. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
The ROPS has to be high enough to prevent the belted in operator from being crushed when the tractor is upside down. As such, its height is a function of where the operator sits, the length of the tractor and the height of the front of the tractor.
ROPS stands for RollOver Protective Structure, not RollOver Prevention System. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
The ROPS has to be high enough to prevent the belted in operator from being crushed when the tractor is upside down. As such, its height is a function of where the operator sits, the length of the tractor and the height of the front of the tractor.
OP
LittleBear
Bronze Member
That ROPS definition sounds great Mike, but that is not what they are doing with modern tractors. Look at the ROPS height of a tractor 10-15 years old and compare it to what it is today for a similar size tractor. The ROPS is HIGHER for almost all models!
In Ohio the highway mowing is done in teams of two tractors. All of these tractors are ROPS with canopy (either JD or NH 70-90 HP). It is fairly common to see one guy mowing sitting in the sun and the other guy mowing in the shade (same field, same direction). The guy in the shade has the older tractor and the guy in the sun has the newer tractor. When the tractors are parked side by side (JD6000 series) the seat height is the same, but the ROPS height on the newer model is much higher.
I asked a JD dealer about this, and he showed me a video of tractor rollover tests. Even on a fairly steep slope, the new tractors never roll all the way over. They tip over onto their side and stop with a big thud. The idea is to try to save people who are too stupid to wear their seatbelts when driving a tractor. This may be great for safety, but I'll bet that there is a fight on hot sunny days as to who gets to drive the older tractor.
I am all for safety, but this is overkill. The US Gov says 1 in 10 tractor drivers will experience a rollover sometime in their lifetime. However, almost all of these cases are because the operator did something stupid. At the top of the list (over half) of rollover causes is trying to pull something by hooking the chain to the 3-pt (above the rear axle) rather than the drawbar (below the rear axle).
These are not ROPS, they are "lawyer ROPS."
In Ohio the highway mowing is done in teams of two tractors. All of these tractors are ROPS with canopy (either JD or NH 70-90 HP). It is fairly common to see one guy mowing sitting in the sun and the other guy mowing in the shade (same field, same direction). The guy in the shade has the older tractor and the guy in the sun has the newer tractor. When the tractors are parked side by side (JD6000 series) the seat height is the same, but the ROPS height on the newer model is much higher.
I asked a JD dealer about this, and he showed me a video of tractor rollover tests. Even on a fairly steep slope, the new tractors never roll all the way over. They tip over onto their side and stop with a big thud. The idea is to try to save people who are too stupid to wear their seatbelts when driving a tractor. This may be great for safety, but I'll bet that there is a fight on hot sunny days as to who gets to drive the older tractor.
I am all for safety, but this is overkill. The US Gov says 1 in 10 tractor drivers will experience a rollover sometime in their lifetime. However, almost all of these cases are because the operator did something stupid. At the top of the list (over half) of rollover causes is trying to pull something by hooking the chain to the 3-pt (above the rear axle) rather than the drawbar (below the rear axle).
These are not ROPS, they are "lawyer ROPS."
JerryG
Super Member
<font color="blue"> The idea is to try to save people who are too stupid to wear their seatbelts when driving a tractor. </font>
I don't understand this statement at all. Anytime a ROPS is in place on a tractor, the driver is required to wear the seat belt. At no time, should a person have the ROPS up and not have a belt on. Now, if the ROPS is down, the belt needs to be off.
I don't understand this statement at all. Anytime a ROPS is in place on a tractor, the driver is required to wear the seat belt. At no time, should a person have the ROPS up and not have a belt on. Now, if the ROPS is down, the belt needs to be off.
OP
LittleBear
Bronze Member
Jerry:
In Ohio when driving a car the driver is required to wear the seat belt. Does this mean that all drivers in Ohio wear their seat belts? When driving a tractor, the rule is ROPS up and seat belt on. Does this mean that all tractor drivers comply with this rule, of course not.
How many tractor drivers drive with the ROPS up but no seat belt? A lot! Is this smart? No. Do they know it is not smart? Yes. Why do they do it? They "believe" it is safe under the present conditions. Famous last words.
Our society has given large monetary awards to people who use poor judgment, are negligent, stupid, etc. In my opinion, this is wrong. People who make unwise choices should not be able to receive large monetary awards via our legal system. However, such is not the case, and most companies (tractor manufacturers included) have made sacrifices in utility and value that the rest of us must pay.
In Ohio when driving a car the driver is required to wear the seat belt. Does this mean that all drivers in Ohio wear their seat belts? When driving a tractor, the rule is ROPS up and seat belt on. Does this mean that all tractor drivers comply with this rule, of course not.
How many tractor drivers drive with the ROPS up but no seat belt? A lot! Is this smart? No. Do they know it is not smart? Yes. Why do they do it? They "believe" it is safe under the present conditions. Famous last words.
Our society has given large monetary awards to people who use poor judgment, are negligent, stupid, etc. In my opinion, this is wrong. People who make unwise choices should not be able to receive large monetary awards via our legal system. However, such is not the case, and most companies (tractor manufacturers included) have made sacrifices in utility and value that the rest of us must pay.
jwnge
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2004
- Messages
- 314
- Location
- oak woods and rocks of Wi.
- Tractor
- Mahindra 2015 HST-- Snapper 1650, Snapper 1438
You use the word stupid to describe tractor drivers a lot, I wonder if ignorant would be better. people normally don't knowingly do stupid things, but sometimes ignorance of the proper way causes these things to happen.. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif John J
JerryG
Super Member
The ROPS is totally worthless without using a seatbelt. Anyone that isn't going to have their seatbelt on, has no use for the ROPS. Might as well take it off and throw it away.
JerryG
Super Member
<font color="blue">The ROPS has to be high enough to prevent the belted in operator from being crushed when the tractor is upside down. As such, its height is a function of where the operator sits, the length of the tractor and the height of the front of the tractor. </font>
That is right, The difference in the heights of different ROPS could have something to do with requirements changing as well as the tractor being set up to use a backhoe or not.
That is right, The difference in the heights of different ROPS could have something to do with requirements changing as well as the tractor being set up to use a backhoe or not.
OP
LittleBear
Bronze Member
John:
My apologies if I have offended anyone with my unfortunate choice of words. I did not mean to diverge into these tangential issues. I'm just looking for a good tractor with a short ROPS. So far, it looks like the Kubota M9000 low-profile is the winner. However, I'll do some more checking just to be sure.
My apologies if I have offended anyone with my unfortunate choice of words. I did not mean to diverge into these tangential issues. I'm just looking for a good tractor with a short ROPS. So far, it looks like the Kubota M9000 low-profile is the winner. However, I'll do some more checking just to be sure.
