Anybody have experience with lightning/ESD/ground issues with outdoor ethernet equip?

[s219]

I ran an ethernet line out to my barn this spring, to feed an outdoor wireless router so I could have internet access. In July, we had a thunderstorm with a lot of nearby lightning strikes, and my ethernet switch (back inside house) got fried. I replaced that and was back in business until another thunderstorm this past week. This time the switch was unharmed but the wireless router out in the yard died. It still powers on and I can reach it, but it's a zombie now and I can't use it or configure it. Even a hard reset didn't save it.

There's a clear connection here to thunderstorms, and I never had any problems in previous years. So obviously running ethernet outdoors has opened me up to new problems. I wonder if my grounding setup is partly to blame.

The outdoor wireless router has accommodation for direct ground via ground rod or can tie into the ethernet system ground (requires ethernet cable with ground wire, which I do have) . As near as I can tell, the ethernet system ground would route to the ground prong in the power plug for the power-over-ethernet injector back inside the house.

I had been using the external ground on the outdoor router, tied to a nearby ground rod (used for the barn's electric service) thinking it would be better to ground the router close to the router rather than rely on ground over ethernet all the way back to the house. Now I am wondering if tying into that ground rod might instead be exposing the outdoor equipment to any lightning effects that propagate down into the ground. Maybe I would be better off grounding my replacement outdoor router through the ethernet cable?

I don't know anything about ESD and lightning strikes. None of the strikes were close by the router that I can see (ie, no obvious damage to trees, etc) but clearly just being outdoors seems to make the equipment vulnerable.

The outdoor router was mounted on a PVC pipe attached to the barn, about 6' above grade. The ethernet cable runs in 1.25" PVC conduit buried shallow. Really, the only direct "metallic" connection between the router and the outside world is the copper ground wire to the ground rod. So if the router is vulnerable to nearby (but not direct) lightning strikes, my dumb thinking is that somehow the earth ground must factor in somehow. Maybe it is causing more problems.

Would love to hear some input, ideas, expertise.

thanks,
219

 

[RNeumann]

If no other electronic devises are seeing damage I’m guessing the cable and conduit are the issue. I’m guessing an indoor rated Ethernet was run between the house and shop and under closer inspection the conduit has water in it. Both would be bad......but easy enough to fix!

Without fixing the former I don’t see much gain in trying to ground the Ethernet side of the two devices.

 

[Diggin It]

I would be looking at a wireless link extender. Effectively does the same thing but without the wire.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I run ethernet to my barn over the power line. Never had a problem.

 

[LittleBill21]

they make esp products

you have to use shield wire with a ground drain though, the esd is generally placed on both sides of the wire, one at the house one at the barn. both esp's get grounded to earth ground and the ground drain wires are grounded via the shielded cable.
Ubiquiti - Ethernet Surge Protector

you can also use fiber and fiber converters to completely eliminate the issue as well.

 

[AWSubie]

Ur issue is most probably related to the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) of the lightning strike. The best “protection” you can implement is to disconnect ur router during storms. I know that disconnecting in inconvenient but it is the only way to significantly reduce the impact of EMP. Even when disconnecting you will not be immune from EMP damage.

 

[Diggin It]

Ur issue is most probably related to the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) of the lightning strike. The best “protection” you can implement is to disconnect ur router during storms. I know that disconnecting in inconvenient but it is the only way to significantly reduce the impact of EMP. Even when disconnecting you will not be immune from EMP damage.

I think an EMP wiped out Subie's 'Y' and 'O' keys. Or maybe it was aliens.

 

[kcflhrc]

Anytime an ethernet cable or phone cable runs outside whether in PVC, direct buried or whatever you need gas lightning protection on the cable. No if's and or but's. Here ya go

https://www.amazon.com/Tupavco-Ethe...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[k0ua]

I used to engineer these kind of systems all day everyday. In my opinion You need protection, and the only kind of protection fast enough to really keep transients from destroying sensitive electronics is protectors with fast avalanche diodes. Gas discharge tubes can help shunt large currents but fire too slowly to prevent puncture of delicate pn junctions in electronics. Again in my opinion, the brand most used by commercial users is Transtector/Polyphaser. These products are not cheap per unit price but in my experience they are very effective. I used to specify them anytime they were justified. This protector includes a hybrid technology of the fast avalanche diodes and the power handling of gas discharge. Also experience has taught us to make sure that there is at least 20 foot of cable between the protector and the equipment. This propagation delay in the copper allows the clamping effect time to occur.

https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-Power...ge+suppressor&qid=1566759376&s=gateway&sr=8-4

All of that said, anytime you can do away with outside wires the better off you will be. Wireless is the way to go if you can make it happen.

 

[techman]

A simple solution is to run the ethernet to the barn with fiber. You can buy long fiber cable with the connectors fitted from ebay for a very reasonable price. Then you need a media converter at each end. For example either of these:

https://www.amazon.com/transceiver-...ref=sr_1_9?keywords=wdm+fiber+media+converter

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Fiber...ords=wdm+fiber+media+converter&qid=1566759857

Use single mode fiber and it is plug-and-play. These media converters only need one fiber and use a different wavelength laser for each direction. This eliminates any issue with induced voltages over the cable. It will not help power line surges, so surge surpressors in the barn might be a good idea.

Paul

 

[k0ua]

A simple solution is to run the ethernet to the barn with fiber. You can buy long fiber cable with the connectors fitted from ebay for a very reasonable price. Then you need a media converter at each end. For example either of these:

https://www.amazon.com/transceiver-...ref=sr_1_9?keywords=wdm+fiber+media+converter

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Fiber...ords=wdm+fiber+media+converter&qid=1566759857

Use single mode fiber and it is plug-and-play. These media converters only need one fiber and use a different wavelength laser for each direction. This eliminates any issue with induced voltages over the cable. It will not help power line surges, so surge surpressors in the barn might be a good idea.

Paul

Yep, this can be another solution. and one we did often. Again you have to protect the end points AC power supplies from surges. Fiber optic cable is cheap, in fact cheaper than most copper, but you do have to terminate it and that can be problematic for the homeowner. You can buy pre terminated lengths of cable if you can pull them (carefully) thru your conduit. But direct burial bulk cable must be prepped and terminated. We often used a fusion splicer to splice terminated ends onto bulk cable. But the fusion splicer cost around $30000 and required a little training to operate. I made many connections with our Hitachi fusion splicer and it was wonderful to watch it work. Think of a machine that is capable of welding glass fiber ends together that are 9 microns thick. I was an Engineer and not a tech, but some of our techs had trouble keeping the expensive machine clean and working, so I was tasked one summer with making hundreds of these splices on a campus. I got fairly good at it.

Be advised there are two common types of fiber in general use, Single mode, and MultiMode. Multimode usually has an orange jacket and Single mode a yellow jacket on indoor type cable. In bulk PVC jacketed fiber which is usually black, you cant tell by looking at it. Single mode is 9 UMeter and multimode is 62.5 um in diameter.

 

[s219]

Thanks everyone for the great analysis and ideas -- I knew you folks would have some experience.

I had bought direct-bury grounded ethernet cable but glad I stuck it in conduit, as I can use that to pull through fiber if it works out to be the best option. I would need to move the POE injector out to the barn instead of having it in the house, but it should be fine out there.

I don't know if I could go completely wireless, as there isn't good line of sight to the barn from house due to terrain, and the outdoor wifi antennas tend to be directional to cover the distance. But I may be able to relay over and around the terrain with multiple units. The router I was using is a TPLink unit that has 5-6 options to serve as an access point, a client, etc, so I could conceivably use several of those. They are about $40-60 each depending on the options. The trick will be locating each one where it has access to power.

 

[s219]

A simple solution is to run the ethernet to the barn with fiber. You can buy long fiber cable with the connectors fitted from ebay for a very reasonable price. Then you need a media converter at each end. For example either of these:

https://www.amazon.com/transceiver-...ref=sr_1_9?keywords=wdm+fiber+media+converter

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Fiber...ords=wdm+fiber+media+converter&qid=1566759857

Use single mode fiber and it is plug-and-play. These media converters only need one fiber and use a different wavelength laser for each direction. This eliminates any issue with induced voltages over the cable. It will not help power line surges, so surge surpressors in the barn might be a good idea.

Paul

Does anyone make consumer media converter units rated for exterior use? The one in my barn would be shielded from weather, but humidity and winter/summer temperature extremes are still an issue. Figure -15C to 45C would be the temperature range.

 

[k0ua]

Maybe check here:

Industrial Media Converters, Industrial Ethernet I Black Box

 

[Diggin It]

Thanks everyone for the great analysis and ideas -- I knew you folks would have some experience.

I had bought direct-bury grounded ethernet cable but glad I stuck it in conduit, as I can use that to pull through fiber if it works out to be the best option. I would need to move the POE injector out to the barn instead of having it in the house, but it should be fine out there.

I don't know if I could go completely wireless, as there isn't good line of sight to the barn from house due to terrain, and the outdoor wifi antennas tend to be directional to cover the distance. But I may be able to relay over and around the terrain with multiple units. The router I was using is a TPLink unit that has 5-6 options to serve as an access point, a client, etc, so I could conceivably use several of those. They are about $40-60 each depending on the options. The trick will be locating each one where it has access to power.

What's your total distance? Wired links are only good for a little over 300' each.

 

[s219]

Maybe check here:

Industrial Media Converters, Industrial Ethernet I Black Box

I saw those earlier, to get their "hardened" unit rated for the temperatures I need, it was $400 each for 10/100-Mbps, and $800 if I wanted Gigibit!

 

[RoyKing]

I used to maintain Ethernet networks in every county in Fl. The ports on the hubs were always frying and sometimes on the PC. If a site was always having a problem I would have new building ground rods installed at it was interesting how deep they had to go to get a good ground. Most times 20 feet did it but I.ve seen sandy areas where 30 feet wasn't enough. Once we got them grounded problems greatly diminished. However a very close strike will fry wifi circuits. Had a tree strike take out the wifi and wireless remote on a pump.

 

[s219]

What's your total distance? Wired links are only good for a little over 300' each.

200' is the length of the ethernet run I have now (which is about the max for power over ethernet -- POE). Then it shoots wireless another 100' or so to cover the area of interest.

 

[LittleBill21]

Does anyone make consumer media converter units rated for exterior use? The one in my barn would be shielded from weather, but humidity and winter/summer temperature extremes are still an issue. Figure -15C to 45C would be the temperature range.

most go down to 0c, 15c is not a big deal, use an old cooler, a light bulb and a snap temp switch and you would be fine.

 

[LittleBill21]

200' is the length of the ethernet run I have now (which is about the max for power over ethernet -- POE).

may i ask who told you 200 feet is the max for POE? that is certainly not the case.