Anyone else waiting to see if tractors without the EPA stuff are coming?

[rvds]

I agree with Mike Rowe. Worldwide manufacturing competition is a math problem, and the answer is education.
We did this before when sputnik went up - so I guess we can do it again. It does take time to see results because the kids that need to learn this stuff are in Jr. High right now.

Back in the sputnik era, many of our parents came from a trades background and knew the value of education. Parents now may not feel the same.

So education is one possible answer for the future, but it has about a ten year lag time if we begin right now.
Is there a better answer sooner?
rScotty

In Canada after WW2 we saw a lot of skilled trade immigrants from eastern Europe. I imagine the US did to a lesser extent because visas were harder to get. Now we can entice white collar graduates from places like India but skilled trades not so much.

 

[5030]

I find it somewhat arcane that in the United States, we generally spend more per pupil than any other civilized country for education but, our students rate dead last in not only proficiency but general knowledge as well. Something is seriously wrong and I have a good idea what it is though because it's political I cannot allude to it on the forum....

 

[Shady oak]

There is an enormous amount of engineering and technology that goes into pollution control on modern diesel engines. The list of failed engines is proof of that.

That said it is highly unlikely that Detroit, Cummins, and other manufacturers are going to redesign an entirely new engine, which could possibility be
ready for use in a couple years, only to have it become illegal two years later.

As for the fuel consumption issue, only someone who never put fuel in a 318, a big cam 350, a Mack,or 3406 Cats would think that fuel mileage was better in "the good old days". That, and imagine the "smoke black as coal" blowing around in major metro areas? You couldn’t read the exit signs!

We used to change oil every 10,000 mi. With the newer engines my 2010 DD13 oil change was factory recommended at 50,000. Which I did with no problems. I have been told they have raised that to 75,000? That’s a considerable reduction in normal maintenance cost.

 

[5030]

Just read am article in the local rag about how Fords is offering a scholarship type of program for auto technicians due to the acute lack of them. Also claimed that an accomplished auto tech can command a 100-120K wage a year. News to me. I've never seen any tech pull down those kind of wages and if they exist, I'm pretty sure whatever dealer they work at won't stay in business long as there is no way their customers could pay the hourly labor rate to cover that.

 

[SGreene]

Obviously a lot has changed Government wise in the USA

I was in the market for a new tractor (I have a 2015 Kioti 6010 now that I like) but wanted to step up to a bigger tractor

Long story short I’m waiting to see if any expected EPA announcements on tractor exhaust deregulation is coming

I heard it is very soon for trucks

TM Ag can tune your NX. I used to have a 2018 NX6010. TM said that motor is about topped out for a hp increase, but they can delete the exhaust and recirc which frees up power in itself. I traded my NX for my current RX7320 and had TM "tune" it. Wow, what a difference! You can lug the motor down all you want without stalling it. It breathes better, runs better, and sounds better, plus you don't have to run it at 2,000+ rpm all the time.

 

[5030]

There is an enormous amount of engineering and technology that goes into pollution control on modern diesel engines. The list of failed engines is proof of that.

That said it is highly unlikely that Detroit, Cummins, and other manufacturers are going to redesign an entirely new engine, which could possibility be
ready for use in a couple years, only to have it become illegal two years later.

As for the fuel consumption issue, only someone who never put fuel in a 318, a big cam 350, a Mack,or 3406 Cats would think that fuel mileage was better in "the good old days". That, and imagine the "smoke black as coal" blowing around in major metro areas? You couldn’t read the exit signs!

We used to change oil every 10,000 mi. With the newer engines my 2010 DD13 oil change was factory recommended at 50,000. Which I did with no problems. I have been told they have raised that to 75,000? That’s a considerable reduction in normal maintenance cost.

DDEC engines are the only 4 stroke diesel engines I've ever seen that instantly turn the lube oil black.

Never been a 4 stroke Detroit diesel fan for a number of reasons, mainly torque rise which is vitally important when hauling heavy loads.

I'll take my 3406 Cat over a Detroit anyday of the week. Mine is an NZ as well. one of the most sought after engines in existence today.

CAT would still be building and selling their engines if it wasn't for the EPA and their book smart but not practical application dummies that work there.

That also applies to diesel engines in larger tractors.

 

[gstrom99]

I find it somewhat arcane that in the United States, we generally spend more per pupil than any other civilized country for education but, our students rate dead last in not only proficiency but general knowledge as well. Something is seriously wrong and I have a good idea what it is though because it's political I cannot allude to it on the forum....

DOE soon to be dismantled, so I hope that changes. Posts about that (and more) can be seen here:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/you-might-love-this-idea-you-might-hate-it.476927/page-4569#post-7109626

 

[scootr]

I would not hold my breath or my purchase waiting for emissions free tractors.

 

[sunandsand]

I find it somewhat arcane that in the United States, we generally spend more per pupil than any other civilized country for education but, our students rate dead last in not only proficiency but general knowledge as well. Something is seriously wrong and I have a good idea what it is though because it's political I cannot allude to it on the forum....

I don't think it is or even was political. I've been peripherally involved with education one way or another for basically my entire life (I'm a youngster of 78), and it didn't seem to matter who was "in power", the educational system was always pretty screwed up (technical term).

This brings us back to the original thread topic. If none of the legislators know anything about what they're making rules and laws about, those rules and laws will be nonsense. Unfortunately, some of our legislators (at all levels) think they know everything (Hey, I saw it on social media so it must be true). They don't bother to check actual facts or check with actual experts, either because they are simply lazy or they are trying to advance some political agenda and mere "facts" and "experts" are inconvenient.

We need an educated electorate and we need educated legislators - and we don't have the first, so we won't get the second.

 

[charlessenf]

"if it isn't THEIR idea and it didn't happen on THEIR campus, it doesn't exist. They are incredibly insular and do. not. listen. or even acknowledge the "outside""

And, who is 'they" but us in other roles.

"We have met the enemy and she is us" . . .(the phrase) ," artfully applied to different scenarios, it continues to tell us more about ourselves—and the world around us."

Citing a teacher driving a rusty Pinto for a cogent defense of Public Education speaks volumes about the intellectual honesty of the speaker and precious little about the institution attempting to serve 350,000,000 people distributed throughout fifty individual states occupying a combined 3,805,927 square miles and reaching halfway around the globe.

We have some five hundred fifty or so representatives in Washington in which the minority party actually represents the majority of our population (if not always the popular or Electoral College ballots) and these represent but our national assembly.

We have fifty state legislative bodies that find Gerrymandering a justifiable tool to leverage the power of a party in power at the state level into outsized influence in our national assembly.

We find bribery of a public official or elected representative to be a felonious criminal offence while condoning unlimited anonymous / untraceable funding of politicians' political campaigns rendering our principle of One Man, One Vote a sorry proposition when compared to our prescient pun on the Golden Rule "He with the gold rules."

One wonders if the speaker ever considered and appreciates the phenomenal complexity that is our two hundred and thirty-five year old constitutional democratic republic conceived of in an era when enslaving our fellow man was part and parcel of the men of property signing that "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America" aledging "the separate and equal station to which the laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them . . . that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.—That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed . . .
" when, among those so governed are millions, ignorant of the history and historic efforts over two centuries that have brought us to the success we've long enjoyed.

We are able to freely ***** about a nation and government we, demonstrably, know so little about (as evidenced so often on Late Night TV 'sidewalk interviews' of passersby - and the like at rallies political and otherwise) without fear of retribution. Why we even have presidential candidate proudly proclaiming "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever" without fear of arrest or prosecution, and another promising to be a 'dicktater for a day' without losing a democratic vote - and delivering in spades, if not for spades.

When it comes to such anecdotal hearsay 'evidence' as the referenced Pintoed Educator, I've one you can try yourself.

When confronted with one denigrating this, that, or the law, program, initiative or proposal in, considered for or proposed by congress assembled, ask them one or more of the following questions:

When does your (City, County, Parish, Council) meet?
When did you last attend one of those meetings?
Who is your representee in your state house (or Senate)?
What Congressional District do you reside in?
Are the Judges in your state political appointees?
Does your state apportion E.C. Ballots?

And, should the ***** relate to a particular Agency, as he referenced comment was to the Department of Education, ask the bitcher one of the following:

Have you read the policy (objected to)?
When was the department created? Who signed it into law?
What is the official Mission Statement of the department?
What would you change about the policy?
How would you go about effecting that change?
Are you working on it presently, or just bitching?

Simple solutions attract simpletons. Democratic republics presume intelligence, intellectual honesty as well as morality on the part of those who would call themselves citizens of the republic and embrace (literally or otherwise) our flag.