Anyone here give comments on 461 or 471 MF tractor

JerryG · Jul 28, 2005

If that is right, what type of hitch is on the tractors that Todd was speaking about? It is a three point hitch which was the Ferguson System anyway you slice it. The reason is because Harry Ferguson was the one and only person to develop a linkage that did the things that it did. Everyone else was working on or using a non-linked attachment such as the IH quick hitch or the Eagle hitch. Although the most popular hitch of that time was just a drawbar. Not just draft, but also the three link arrangement was unique to the Ferguson System.
Bird, most of the time I always agree with you. Matter of a fact this is the only time since 1999 that I can remember that I haven't.

Bird · Jul 28, 2005

Jerry, it's fine with me to disagree with me. And I'll have to admit to not understanding Todd's first post in this thread, which seems to indicate the Ferguson System is outdated, and if that's really what he meant, then I'd disagree with him. However, since I don't really understand what was meant, I can't say I agree or disagree. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

JerryG · Jul 28, 2005

And I'll have to admit to not understanding Todd's first post in this thread, which seems to indicate the Ferguson System is outdated, and if that's really what he meant, then I'd disagree with him. 
That was the main point. I don't understand for sure. I am sure, given the advancement that engineering has had in the last 100 years, that a better hitch could be developed. It is as though he is trying to separate the Ferguson System for the TPH. I don't know. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

JerryG · Jul 28, 2005

I checked and sure enough, I'm not driving a model T. 
Shucks, I was going to ask if you had the agriculture version. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob_Skurka · Jul 28, 2005

Jerry, you and Bird are making me feel a whole lot better.

I thought I was the only one who had no clue what he was talking about. But it seems to me a 3pt hitch is a 3pt hitch. And Ferguson developed the 3pt hitch and called it the Ferguson system. 2 lower links, 1 top link. The draft control is optional. To me it is irrelevant if it uses internal or external hydraulics. It walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I think it is a duck.

3060MF · Jul 29, 2005

"The Ferguson System for you and anyone else that is not aware is the "Three Point System".

 I don't understand that quote from Jerry. Ford agreed to stop using the patented "Ferguson System" and continued selling tractors with a "Three Point System". The "Ferguson System" could not have been used by John Deere or there would have been another lawsuit.

JerryG · Jul 29, 2005

Here is quote for "Just 8Ns" site.
 The Ford 2N evolved into the Ford 8N, which officially started it's production in 1947 and was made through 1952. Some of the noticeable differences from the 9N/2N was the change in lugs from six to eight in the rear wheels, the scripted "Ford" logo on the fenders and sides of the hood this scripting did not actually start until late 1950 and the absence of the "Ferguson System" patch which was no longer displayed under the Ford oval even though the tractor still used Fergusons three-point hitch.

Poncho · Jul 30, 2005

Pardon the interjection here... and I'm certainly no scholar on this subject. But if MF invented the 3-point system, which is bascially used in all tractors that lift etc., maybe TT means that with advancement in technology, the original system could be improved... (how, don't know /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif but maybe thats what the reference is to with the "sensing" terminology). But given that MF invented the 3 point system and it has been refined and applied in concept by virtually every tractor manufacturer, and saying it is outdated would seem like saying that the Ford assembly line concept is outdated. Everyone is using assembly lines nowadays for mass production, albeit refined to a great extent. Am I totally off base here??

ZJ_HR · Jul 31, 2005

Lets stop the ball now.

I realize Todd's post like: Ferguson draft and lifting system is outdated - mean not strong enough for today needs, and he didn't say in any word that 3 pt system is outdated. And I agree with him.
Most of utility tractors (>60hp) have either auxillary external lift cylinder (or two), or just pair of external lift cylinders without internal cylinder. Their draft sensing system is usually on lower linkage attaching-to tractor-points, either mechanical or EHR (electronic) - simpler and cheaper as tractor getting bigger and more expensive.

On my both tractors is 3 pt hitch and top link sensing system, and I never consider it like Ferguson, just like 3pt hitch. And draft contol works fine for plowing on both, even not of MF type /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Not to defend him, but if I understand Todd good, his intention was just to warn that some tractors with internal lift cylinders doesn't have enough lift power for some needs.

So where is the problem? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SouthernMan · Aug 1, 2005

I actually have a 471, 4wd, fel, shuttle shift, etc. I must first comment on some of these "issues", than I'll give my honest impression to the gentleman who started the thread.

The top link has NO "draft" control sensor (so I don't understand the comment about "compression force exerted through a spring in the top link")..as far as the ferguson system being outdated - every line of tractor utilizes the ferguson system in one form or another --- let me restate --- EVERY tractor line. How many tractors don't have a 3 pt hitch? That is a Ferguson invention...

Now if you are talking about the pumps, then perhaps that is where you should focus your comments. And if 5-10 GPM more than many competitors is outdated, then perhaps I am in an alternate universe. The pump system is called Ferguson & Gear, and is utilized by many major manufacturers, such as McCormick, Farmtrac, AGCO of course, and others..

As far as my impressions of the 471 - I have over 100 hrs of hard use on it, and found little to complain about...that pumping system, when running my FEL, will pick up 6,000+ pounds to a height of just above the hood (I have a combining valve installed). Pretty good for a 60 pto hp tractor. I have carried 5X6 rolls of hay all over the place, with spears on both the 3pt hitch and the fel. If this tractor wouldn't pick em up, I wouldn't have it. The perkins 1104 is superb, as others I have had. And the shuttle is outstanding...

Now the gripes: no hydraulic oil cooler (most tractors don't have one though); pto lever is mechanical, which requires adjustment as necessary; no cupholder ....

I would suggest, that for the power and price, it's a pretty darn good bargain.