Anyone Use a Trash Pumpt to Clean pond?

[palmerdad]

I'm really curious to hear what happens with the diaphragm pump as I'm going to be trying the same thing soon up here in Northern Michigan. I have a creek fed pond roughly 45' by 20' that is 30 years old. I believe it should be roughly 15 feet deep but is only about 5 or 6 on the one side sloping up to about 1 foot deep on the incoming water side. The sediment is a muddy muck, no rocks to contend with and the bottom should be a heavy clay (the sides all are). I'd like to be able to add some trout when done if all goes well. Or at least not have a dangerous quick sand pit in my backyard since I have small kids.

Last year I tried pumping it out with a 6" trash pump. The pump did a great job of getting all of the top water out but once I got down to the muck it just clogged the screen head. So this spring I hired a friend who owns an excavating company. We can't get a large excavator to the pond due to a number of large trees that I'm not willing to sacrifice so he brought a mini excavator and a bobcat. Again we pumped off the top water with a trash pump and he was going to try and drive down into it and scoop his way across the pond. When he tried to descend the steep bank he found that the pond was deeper than he thought with the mud and we didn't want to risk sinking the machine by going in. So he scooped from the two sides he could but barely put a dent in it. (The other two sides are where the sludge is the deepest and are protected by big trees.)

So in my research I've arrived at my next possible solution, a 3" Wacker diaphragm pump. From what I read they are able to move water with more than 25% solids and are built to handle mud. My thought is to stir up the muck as much as possible and start pumping. In order to stir it up I'm considering putting a fishing boat with an outboard in the pond. Tie it off to a couple of the large trees and letting the engine rip. I know it sounds unconventional, but who knows, sometimes unconventional ideas are the best... right?!

I have found I can rent the pump for $70 for a weekend or $170 for a week so I'm not out too much money. And as far as the spoils, yes, I know it's a lot but I have a sloping hill side to pump it over so I should be ok.

Sure would love to hear from someone who has tried a diaphragm pump first for any tips or tricks or reports on how it went.

 

[jonyyuma]

Years ago, we used diaphram pumps to pump out deep manholes. Many of them held a lot of clay sediment.. They worked pretty good. Something you will find out, water with sediment is very hard to raise. I mean the head pressure, or lift ability..Far as the boat motor just watch the water pump on it to be sure to have adaquate flow into the engine cooling.

 

[jinman]

I'mSo in my research I've arrived at my next possible solution, a 3" Wacker diaphragm pump. From what I read they are able to move water with more than 25% solids and are built to handle mud. My thought is to stir up the muck as much as possible and start pumping. In order to stir it up I'm considering putting a fishing boat with an outboard in the pond. Tie it off to a couple of the large trees and letting the engine rip. I know it sounds unconventional, but who knows, sometimes unconventional ideas are the best... right?!

I have found I can rent the pump for $70 for a weekend or $170 for a week so I'm not out too much money. And as far as the spoils, yes, I know it's a lot but I have a sloping hill side to pump it over so I should be ok.

Sure would love to hear from someone who has tried a diaphragm pump first for any tips or tricks or reports on how it went.

I think you are going to waste your money on that pump. With your limitations I think you need a dredge style pump that removes water and solids, filters out the solids, and returns the water. I think you are going to find that the mud/muck is 75% or greater solids and the pump simply cannot pump out the muck. Think of a concrete pump. That's the kind of pump you need for the described task in your pond. Otherwise, you will just have to sacrifice some trees so a large excavator can get into the pond.

Silt is something I have a lot of experience with. Mud/muck takes forever to dry. It can look dry and crusty on the surface and be "pudding" underneath. My pond had been dry for 6 months when this dozer arrived. He had to dig a trench deep enough to be on the native dry soil while removing the silt. At some places, the silt was 10' deep in my pond. An excavator with a very long arm can reach in and dig out the silt, but I think your silt is too dense to pump and to thin to drive in a dozer or other tracked vehicle.

 

[jonyyuma]

I think you are going to waste your money on that pump. With your limitations I think you need a dredge style pump that removes water and solids, filters out the solids, and returns the water. I think you are going to find that the mud/muck is 75% or greater solids and the pump simply cannot pump out the muck. Think of a concrete pump. That's the kind of pump you need for the described task in your pond. Otherwise, you will just have to sacrifice some trees so a large excavator can get into the pond.

Silt is something I have a lot of experience with. Mud/muck takes forever to dry. It can look dry and crusty on the surface and be "pudding" underneath. My pond had been dry for 6 months when this dozer arrived. He had to dig a trench deep enough to be on the native dry soil while removing the silt. At some places, the silt was 10' deep in my pond. An excavator with a very long arm can reach in and dig out the silt, but I think your silt is too dense to pump and to thin to drive in a dozer or other tracked vehicle.

I remember watching a bulldozer sink into an old pond years ago. It was old silt, nearly solidifyed bottom.

 

[palmerdad]

I looked briefly at concrete pumps but I'm not sure how you get the sludge into one. sure there is a long out pipe but most of them just have a box to dump in the concrete. Maybe I'm missing something? When I do a search for "dredge pump" all i come up with our basically trash pumps which say they can pump water and up to 25% solids. The best pump available to be rented by an individual that claims to be able to handle more than 25% solids is a diaphragm pump. Anyone else ever tried one (for any purpose)? How much solids did it pump? How fast/slow was it?

 

[jinman]

I looked briefly at concrete pumps but I'm not sure how you get the sludge into one. sure there is a long out pipe but most of them just have a box to dump in the concrete. Maybe I'm missing something? When I do a search for "dredge pump" all i come up with our basically trash pumps which say they can pump water and up to 25% solids. The best pump available to be rented by an individual that claims to be able to handle more than 25% solids is a diaphragm pump. Anyone else ever tried one (for any purpose)? How much solids did it pump? How fast/slow was it?

I didn't really mean that you could actually use a concrete pump. I meant that it would take a plunger style pump to move solids like your mud.

A dredge pump moves water to stir up mud in a high concentration with the water and then the silt is allowed to settle out and the water recycled. I would think you need one pump making a water jet to stir up the mud and another one sucking the muddy water up. If you had a settling pond, you could dump that water into it and let the silt settle. If you just pump out the available muddy water and don't recycle it, your pond empties out and you are trying to pump mud that is too thick.

There is mechanical dredging using a scoop, but you need to get around the pond just like using the excavator. I think to preserve your pond environment, the only thing is a pump dredge done by professionals. I just don't think you will be able to afford the equipment you need for a 1-time job. You can try that pump, but I think you will be disappointed.

Here's info I just found. I think this guy has it right. Pay close attention to where he says dredges normally move 10% solids and 90% water.

 

[palmerdad]

I was hoping that the boat engine would have the effect of stirring the mud up into the water. when I run out of muddy water that the pump can handle (I'm thinking that could take 4 or 5 hours) I will have to wait overnight for the pond to refill via the stream. (When I pumped it down with the trash pump it refilled overnight) I have a week off work coming up and thought I might rent it for the week so I could repeat the process a couple of times and see how much mud I could remove. I am hopeful that the diaphragm pump will be able to handle a good muddy mix without clogging allowing me to pump more than just storred up water but I might be deluding myself.

I was hoping perhaps SCESNICK would have tried this by now and could give some insight on what he found to lend some first person experience. If not, I guess I'll have to go first and relay on the experience!

 

[scesnick]

I was hoping perhaps SCESNICK would have tried this by now and could give some insight on what he found to lend some first person experience. If not, I guess I'll have to go first and relay on the experience!

Nope, haven't done this yet. I am currently building a stone wall and now I have my back all out of whack so it will be atleast another month or so till I try this.

 

[leonz]

I'm really curious to hear what happens with the diaphragm pump as I'm going to be trying the same thing soon up here in Northern Michigan. I have a creek fed pond roughly 45' by 20' that is 30 years old. I believe it should be roughly 15 feet deep but is only about 5 or 6 on the one side sloping up to about 1 foot deep on the incoming water side. The sediment is a muddy muck, no rocks to contend with and the bottom should be a heavy clay (the sides all are). I'd like to be able to add some trout when done if all goes well. Or at least not have a dangerous quick sand pit in my backyard since I have small kids.

Last year I tried pumping it out with a 6" trash pump. The pump did a great job of getting all of the top water out but once I got down to the muck it just clogged the screen head. So this spring I hired a friend who owns an excavating company. We can't get a large excavator to the pond due to a number of large trees that I'm not willing to sacrifice so he brought a mini excavator and a bobcat. Again we pumped off the top water with a trash pump and he was going to try and drive down into it and scoop his way across the pond. When he tried to descend the steep bank he found that the pond was deeper than he thought with the mud and we didn't want to risk sinking the machine by going in. So he scooped from the two sides he could but barely put a dent in it. (The other two sides are where the sludge is the deepest and are protected by big trees.)

So in my research I've arrived at my next possible solution, a 3" Wacker diaphragm pump. From what I read they are able to move water with more than 25% solids and are built to handle mud. My thought is to stir up the muck as much as possible and start pumping. In order to stir it up I'm considering putting a fishing boat with an outboard in the pond. Tie it off to a couple of the large trees and letting the engine rip. I know it sounds unconventional, but who knows, sometimes unconventional ideas are the best... right?!

I have found I can rent the pump for $70 for a weekend or $170 for a week so I'm not out too much money. And as far as the spoils, yes, I know it's a lot but I have a sloping hill side to pump it over so I should be ok.

Sure would love to hear from someone who has tried a diaphragm pump first for any tips or tricks or reports on how it went.

The only way your going to move any dirt with the diaphram pump is to rent a second PRESSURE pump to break up the mud and allow the Diaphram Pump to work at avery low head pressure as more water than dirt will be entering the pump suction line.

The problem is going to be one of having and maintaining enough water to do the job, this is the only realistic way to be able to move all this muck and it will take you a long time to do this.


Unless you both have a drilling mud cleaning system or a roll off container to drain the water back the water wil be wasted and less dirt will be removed in either instances.

 

[leonz]

I was hoping that the boat engine would have the effect of stirring the mud up into the water. when I run out of muddy water that the pump can handle (I'm thinking that could take 4 or 5 hours) I will have to wait overnight for the pond to refill via the stream. (When I pumped it down with the trash pump it refilled overnight) I have a week off work coming up and thought I might rent it for the week so I could repeat the process a couple of times and see how much mud I could remove. I am hopeful that the diaphragm pump will be able to handle a good muddy mix without clogging allowing me to pump more than just storred up water but I might be deluding myself.

I was hoping perhaps SCESNICK would have tried this by now and could give some insight on what he found to lend some first person experience. If not, I guess I'll have to go first and relay on the experience!

Referring to my last posting the issue is dirt and clay and returning the water for reuse.

The more ideal method would be to use a 20 foot roll off container and pump the muddy water into the container and the water will drain away back to the pond and the mud will settle out in the container and be a more efficient use of the diaphram pump and a pressure pump for the rental.

Even the purchase of a small pressure pump with a one inch line will not be a waste if you
use a roll off container to hold the dirt and drain the water back for reuse by the pressure pump.