Anything wrong with chging top link position

[stevenf]

My PECS finally came in and I got it installed all of my implements fit fine and it works great but I don't have enough travel for my BB as I was warned about by Pat and ya'll. The Kubota manual for my M9000 says earthmoving top hole, plows and such middle hole and disc and such bottom hole. I've never changed the position I've kept in the middle hole on everything and its worked fine. Can I use the bottom hole on the tractor 3pt block and spread my lift arms out to the cat 3 position on my BB without hurting anything. The point of doing this would be to lessen the distance that the hyd top link cylinder is extended therein regaining some adjustment to be able to slant my BB more or less aggressive. I know that Soundman had a post a while back about the physics involved with where a particular implement is hooked up to make it work properly but most of my implements are undersized for my machine so I don't imagine I'll even notice the change from an operations standpoint. My main concern is I don't want to hurt my baby by putting to much stress on the lowest set of holes on my 3pt block and breaking something.
Steve

 

[greg_g]

It depends upon where the pivot point is. But the top pin hole location usually provides maximum feedback to the draft control. If/when you're using an implement requiring no draft control input, you can put the HTL pin anywhere you want. I personally put mine where it will rest as close to horizontal as possible at working height.

//greg//

 

[sandman2234]

I guess if your really, really afraid your going to break something, you better not take it out of the garage. (just kidding)
Unfortunately, you will break something sooner or later, and most of the time it isn't something cheap.
I would give each of the holes a short workout and see what difference each makes. Be careful, take your time, watch what your doing and maybe nothing bad will happen.
David from jax

 

[stevenf]

Greg, My tractor is so tall that I don't have any implements that allow me to have the toplink anywhere near horizontal, about a 45 degree angle maybe but that as close as I get. Porbably due to me needing smaller 3pt implements to navigate the ranch with causes this as I expect a true cat 2 implement would be much taller. If I can't/shouldn't use the lowest hole for everything I may just have a extender welded on my ram wouldn't take but about 6" or so.
Steve

 

[stevenf]

David, I'm not really really afraid of breaking something I just don't want to be stupid and break it when I could have asked you guys and maybe gotten another M9000 owner to respond don't do that I pulled my tractor in two pieces doing it or something. I do think I'll give it a shot and just go slow and see like you said, problem is once my almost 10,000lb machine gets pointed in a direction it just goes. The tires are solid filled and theres not much whinning around or ground slippage it digs in and proceeds forward, gotta be quick on the position control lever and the clutch or these little cat1 implements will turn into pretzels. I'd like to avoid lenghtening my ram so that I can use it without the PECS if I need to without whipping out the mechanical top link.
Steve

 

[greg_g]

Greg, My tractor is so tall that I don't have any implements that allow me to have the toplink anywhere near horizontal, about a 45 degree angle maybe but that as close as I get. Porbably due to me needing smaller 3pt implements to navigate the ranch with causes this as I expect a true cat 2 implement would be much taller. If I can't/shouldn't use the lowest hole for everything I may just have a extender welded on my ram wouldn't take but about 6" or so.Steve

Actually, I said "as close to horizontal as possible ". Which - in your case - probably means you'll be in the lower hole(s) whenever draft control isn't required. I use the lower holes in mine far more often than the top hole. Since the lower lift arms have swivel balls on the tractor end too, I can't see much to be gained by spreading them out.

Fortunately I already had Cat 2 PECs on my KAMA before I bought the Cat 2 HTL. That way I already knew I what length to shop for. But I personally have too much invested in the HTL to butcher it up in a welding shop.For those implements that still are not quite the right distance back, I added flexible toplinks to make up the difference.

Having said all that, it's a seller's market for hydraulic toplinks. You might consider selling the one you have, and buying a replacement with a stroke more suitable to your current needs.

//greg//

 

[stevenf]

Greg, How do the flexible toplinks work? Would they work for things like BB, chisel plow etc or would the implement flop around do to not being held firmly up top.
Steve

 

[Soundguy]

The hole locations effect geometry and mechanical advantage that is placed on the toplink rocker ( and draft hyds linkage, if equipped ). If in doubt.. I'd use the hole rated for the heaviest work.. like ground engaging ( high draft), as that will put the least mechanical advantage on the toplink rocker.

I've seen early fords that had the wrong hole used.. and it ripped the guts out of the draft sensing hyds... which required about 500$ and xx hours to repair...

Soundguy

My PECS finally came in and I got it installed all of my implements fit fine and it works great but I don't have enough travel for my BB as I was warned about by Pat and ya'll. The Kubota manual for my M9000 says earthmoving top hole, plows and such middle hole and disc and such bottom hole. I've never changed the position I've kept in the middle hole on everything and its worked fine. Can I use the bottom hole on the tractor 3pt block and spread my lift arms out to the cat 3 position on my BB without hurting anything. The point of doing this would be to lessen the distance that the hyd top link cylinder is extended therein regaining some adjustment to be able to slant my BB more or less aggressive. I know that Soundman had a post a while back about the physics involved with where a particular implement is hooked up to make it work properly but most of my implements are undersized for my machine so I don't imagine I'll even notice the change from an operations standpoint. My main concern is I don't want to hurt my baby by putting to much stress on the lowest set of holes on my 3pt block and breaking something.
Steve

 

[stevenf]

Soundguy, That is way to funny not only did I get your screen name wrong but the math/science was wrong to. It looks like to me that the least mechanical advantage would be the lowest set of holes right? Although I'll swear but I need to go reread the manual I think it says goundmoving equipment should be in the top set and then they give a #2 or #3 hole for other implements which to me looks like they are reccommending less mechanical advantage by reccommending the lower holes. Or is this the same reason I failed Geometry twice.
Steve

 

[greg_g]

Greg, How do the flexible toplinks work? Would they work for things like BB, chisel plow etc or would the implement flop around do to not being held firmly up top.Steve

The type to which I referred are not exactly like those you'd associate with a finish mower or rotary cutter. Those permit the implement fixed toplink bracket to move without regard to the presence of the actual toplink.

What I use are those parallel bar types with multiple pin holes and at least one fixed plate welded on. I've had U-shaped and H-shaped. One end pins to the implement toplink bracket, the other to the toplink swivel ball. You can select which bracket pin hole to use based upon the gap to the toplink pin hole. Installed one direction they can bridge the gap, in the other direction they can extend it. Or one for each job, your choice. The fixed plate is a striker that serves to make rigid the otherwise "flexible" bracket.

Hope that wasn't too confusing. Oh, and I tend to agree with your geometry. But like I said above, it depends upon the location of the pivot point.

 

[Soundguy]

Your manual is probably correct for your machine. It just depends on how the toplink rocker is hooked up. That is.. if it is a setup where one side of the rocker is mounted on a fixed pin that allows the rocker to rotate, and the where the toplink hooks up, and where the draft plunger is... On a ford, the pin is at the bottom, and the draft plunger is almost directly in line with the bottom hole, and the top hole is actually 3-4" above the draft plunger.. thus.. items that have low draft.. like a small cultivator, they use the top hole, as the tall rocker acts as a lever, and thus as an amplifier of mechanical advantage.. so that the light draft implement can still influence the drafdt sensing hyds. If say.. a plow were hooked up top.. it would over influence the draft hyds.. etc.

Your orange tractor may have the draft plunger at a different location in relation tot he fixed rotational point, and the toplink connection.. and thus have a different set of rules. For instance.. if your toplink rocker had the fixed pin and rotation point at the TOP, and then the toplink connected in the middle somewhere, and then the draft plunger was lower then that, then the TOP hole would be the least mechanical advantage in that setup, and the lower hole.. the one closer tot he draft plunger would be the most mechanical advantage... etc.

I'd have to see a few pics of your toplink rocker setup to say which it was... etc.

So.. no.. I don't doubt that you or your manual are wrong.. probably just different hardware..

Soundguy

Soundguy, That is way to funny not only did I get your screen name wrong but the math/science was wrong to. It looks like to me that the least mechanical advantage would be the lowest set of holes right? Although I'll swear but I need to go reread the manual I think it says goundmoving equipment should be in the top set and then they give a #2 or #3 hole for other implements which to me looks like they are reccommending less mechanical advantage by reccommending the lower holes. Or is this the same reason I failed Geometry twice.
Steve

 

[Slamfire]

I have some abrupt grade changes on my drive. If I use the lower of the two positions I have trouble with the likeage overcentering and getting stuck. If you try it watch it carefully when changing grades.