APPLES to APPLES - comparisons between Cab HST models around 50 HP (SPREADSHEET)

[GManBart]

Ouch! As stated, all the prices I posted were for CAB tractors ... what would JD have gotten you for had you bought a CAB ?

Was thinking the same thing....figure at least another $5-6K easy. Granted, the BH adds a big chunk, but still...

 

[eagle107]

Was thinking the same thing....figure at least another $5-6K easy. Granted, the BH adds a big chunk, but still...

The JD 4520 w/cab will be around the same price as the Kubota 5740: 4520 and 5740 have the same 50HP PTO. The JD 4520 will be pretty price competitive to the Kubota 5740 and Massey 1660 if you have the right JD dealer. I got my 4520 Cab tractor with air ride seat, one rear remote, 400CX loader, the economy PTO, skid steer attachment and 72" round back heavy duty bucket with reversible cutting edge for 41k out the door including tax. The JD was only 1k more than the Massey 1660 w/cab and $700.00 more than the Kubota with all the additional JD features I mentioned.

 

[TSO]

Here .. I updated the spec-sheet showing the JD 4320. I can't find their warranty info on the website. Also can't find the weight of the 400cx loader, or the overall length. Also keep in mind, that price does not include the optional remotes OR telescoping 3pt lift arm ends... not sure what they up-charge for those items. The JD specs are pretty low compared to the rest of the bunch, with the exception of hydraulic flow - they have the highest implement flow of the bunch.

And folks... I'm not trying to pick fights or bash any tractors. Clearly mine isn't leading the group in ANY single category. This is just objective specific information on the capability & capacity of each unit. In the world of "HST CAB Tractors around 50 hp" these are the closest machines I can compare.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

TSO, I did the same sort of spreadsheet when I was tractor shopping for the same type of tractor as you - Cab, 50hp and HST.

I eliminated the TYM 503 because of the lack of dealer support in my area.

I eliminated the Mahindra 5010 because I just didn't like the ergonomics as much as I did the Kubota and the LS. And not having extendable lower lift arms puzzled me.

I liked the Kioti but eliminated it because there were no dealers near me. So I was deciding between the LS XR4046 and the Kubota L4740. Then my closest dealer (who has been around a long time) started carrying Kioti.

I eliminated the Kubota just because of the price difference between it and the Kioti and LS. Between the Kioti and LS it was a coin toss. I finally picked the Kioti but could have been equally happy with the LS (or the Kubota if my wallet could have stood the extra damage).

 

[TSO]

I hear ya PP... I actually sat in a DK45 today. The 1 thing I don't like about the Kioti cab is the seat. It feels like it tilts me forward too much. If there was a way to tilt it back, I couldn't find it. I was also disappointed that it didn't have arm rests. I do like the Kioti tractors tho, and they have a sweet spot in my heart from my experience owning one before.

My LS dealer should be getting an XR4046 cab this week sometime, so I may sit in that soon. I might go sit on a Mah 5010 tomorrow if I have the time. I talked to the Mah dealer today on the phone. He too was puzzled by the lack of telescoping arms. However, he gets around it by installing a quick-hitch on every 5010 he sells, which he says fixes the problem most of the time. I've never used a QH before, so I can't comment on one. I think that most, but not all, implements are compatible right?

The Mahindra dealer is about 40 miles from me. I also have a TYM dealer about 30 miles away, but he doesn't have any more T503's. The next closest TYM dealer is about 150 miles away, and he does have 2 I can choose from. He's been very friendly & helpful (actually a member here on TBN) and I'd rather pick the TYM over the Mah because I'd like to give the Perkins diesel a go, and the TYM has better standard features than the Mah, including the extendable 3pt lift arms. TYM also has the better warranty, and the loader is better than my LS loader.

The Kub dealer is literally just up the road from me and I've sat on & played with their tractors... and my local Kioti dealer also sells Massey, although he can't get any 1648's (ANY cab Massey's for that matter) so the next closest one remaining is out of state. I was hoping to sit on one today when I stopped by to play with the DK45, but no go.

I'm still not sure if I'm even going to upgrade at this point. But, there's not much I enjoy more than playing on different tractors, so I don't mind the process

 

[GManBart]

I'm still not sure if I'm even going to upgrade at this point. But, there's not much I enjoy more than playing on different tractors, so I don't mind the process

You totally should....then you can sell me that sun shade/ROPS/toolbox setup you made for yours

 

[grsthegreat]

when i was looking for cabbed tractors i looked at all brands also. The TYM came in a close second but i hated the controls for the rear remotes. They were behind me. Very bad placement. IThat was back in 2010 so they may have changed that by now.

I LOVED the Kubota unit, but the price knocked it out of the market. I didnt even consider the JD cause the dealership treated me like crap...and the same guy owned all 3 local dealerships. (Mind you i bought my first JD from the same guy).

I ended up with the Kioti cause this dealership had one left on the lot and he was willing to deal for cash. I got a smashing good deal. Now 300 hours later it still runs like a dream. The money i saved paid for 50% of the forklift, front plow and front snowblower. (as compared to the kubota price)

 

[rmorey]

I'm still not sure if I'm even going to upgrade at this point.

Oh I think its all over but the buying! :laughing:

Seriously, snowblowing in a tee shirt does have its drawbacks. You can catch a chill climbing out for a pee! :laughing:

 

[eagle107]

Here .. I updated the spec-sheet showing the JD 4320. I can't find their warranty info on the website. Also can't find the weight of the 400cx loader, or the overall length. Also keep in mind, that price does not include the optional remotes OR telescoping 3pt lift arm ends... not sure what they up-charge for those items. The JD specs are pretty low compared to the rest of the bunch, with the exception of hydraulic flow - they have the highest implement flow of the bunch.

And folks... I'm not trying to pick fights or bash any tractors. Clearly mine isn't leading the group in ANY single category. This is just objective specific information on the capability & capacity of each unit. In the world of "HST CAB Tractors around 50 hp" these are the closest machines I can compare.

Please find attached the loader specs for the JD 400X and 400CX Loaders. The JD 4320 has an overall length of 135in. w/3-Point Hitch. The JD warranty is 2 years bumper to bumper plus 1 year or 2000 hours extra for the power train. Also, the LS XR4046HC 3 Point Hitch states only 2756lbs and the Mahindra 5010 states 3314lbs; it does not say 24" behind the balls like, JD, Kubota and Kioti. Be careful that the numbers given might represents the lift link ends (balls) instead of 24" behind the lift link ends (balls). Massey states 3483lbs at hitch points for the 1648, which are the lift link ends (balls) and not 24" behind the lift link balls/ends. Take ~25% off of the 3483lbs and you are at 2600lbs plus change at 24" behinds the lift link balls/ends. In addition, the TYM website actually states that the T503's 3PH lift at 24" is 2105lbs. Those marketing departments at these manufactures love to spin those numbers; many times in their favor and not ours. Lastly, I would also put the specs down for the New Holland 3045 or 3050 compact cab tractors. Those are fully Shibaura made tractors and the only thing in common with the LS XR4046HC and the NH 3045 is the Shibaura engine. Other than that, good job.

 

[TSO]

Eagle ... the Boomer 3045 & 3050 are NOT hydrostat. They are CVT. Not only that, their loader specs are pathetically low (250TL) compared to the rest of the group. Those reasons are why they are NOT included in this list.

As for the other specs. I referenced and cross-referenced different information to get the proper (I believe) specs on the above tractors. Unfortunately, their own websites are often not the best places to get the info, because some are not done very well. The redesigned LS website has mistakes all over the place (they just re-did that site a couple months ago) ... and the TYM site is easily the worst of the bunch. I also used product brochures, dealer literature, other internet searches, etc etc etc ... I'm not going to make a glossary of all of the sources, don't have the time

Thanks for posting the link to the JD loader manual.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . . However, he gets around it by installing a quick-hitch on every 5010 he sells, which he says fixes the problem most of the time. I've never used a QH before, so I can't comment on one. I think that most, but not all, implements are compatible right?

. . . .

Most NEW implements these days are QH compatible, but a lot of older ones are not. If possible, you might want to see if your Mahindra dealer would loan you one of those quick hitches for a day so you could see which ones of your implements it will work with.

On the ones that are not QH compatible, a lot of people modify them to make them work. My old Gannon box blade doesn't have quite enough clearance to let the top hook fit, so I need to fix that.

 

[eagle107]

Eagle ... the Boomer 3045 & 3050 are NOT hydrostat. They are CVT. Not only that, their loader specs are pathetically low (250TL) compared to the rest of the group. Those reasons are why they are NOT included in this list. As for the other specs. I referenced and cross-referenced different information to get the proper (I believe) specs on the above tractors. Unfortunately, their own websites are often not the best places to get the info, because some are not done very well. The redesigned LS website has mistakes all over the place (they just re-did that site a couple months ago) ... and the TYM site is easily the worst of the bunch. I also used product brochures, dealer literature, other internet searches, etc etc etc ... I'm not going to make a glossary of all of the sources, don't have the time Thanks for posting the link to the JD loader manual.

Yes, you are right about the Boomer being a CVT, sorry about. Good luck with your information gathering.

 

[TSO]

Fyi, just confirmed it with the TYM dealer ... the 3pt lift is that 2945 @ 24" ... and something like 3314 @ ball ends. Apparently the TYM website and marketing division is currently being revamped and dealers are hoping for a new website soon.

 

[GManBart]

Fyi, just confirmed it with the TYM dealer ... the 3pt lift is that 2945 @ 24" ... and something like 3314 @ ball ends. Apparently the TYM website and marketing division is currently being revamped and dealers are hoping for a new website soon.

At least they were able to come up with the answer! It seems almost all of the tractor manufacturers need work in this area. Some don't seem to like publishing specs at all, which isn't much better than publishing specs, that don't specify the details...sorta seems implied with "specifications", you would think.

 

[TYM Tractors]

Fyi, just confirmed it with the TYM dealer ... the 3pt lift is that 2945 @ 24" ... and something like 3314 @ ball ends. Apparently the TYM website and marketing division is currently being revamped and dealers are hoping for a new website soon.

This is true! Our new website is expected to launch by mid April, as well as updated software for both our parts and warranty system's.

 

[TYM Tractors]

As a reference, these are the official specifications for our 40-50 horsepower models.
You might need to zoom in.

 

[EddieWalker]

Fyi, just confirmed it with the TYM dealer ... the 3pt lift is that 2945 @ 24" ... and something like 3314 @ ball ends. Apparently the TYM website and marketing division is currently being revamped and dealers are hoping for a new website soon.

What is the advantage to having the highest 3pt lift ability? If the attachments weigh a thousand pounds at the ball ends, why would it matter if you can lift more then the other brands if they are all able to lift well into excess of the weight of the implements?

I would focus on other things like loader lift and the size of the bucket. Transmission type, comfort of the seat and interior. How good is the AC and what does it take to keep it working? I know a guy with a Zetor that he picked up real cheap that has to pull the to of his cab off to clean out the AC radiator because it gets so clogged up mowing that it stops working. What good is a cab if it doesn't keep you comfortable? And the most important thing is how far away is the dealer and how well stocked are they on parts?

Eddie

 

[TSO]

What is the advantage to having the highest 3pt lift ability? If the attachments weigh a thousand pounds at the ball ends, why would it matter if you can lift more then the other brands if they are all able to lift well into excess of the weight of the implements?

I would focus on other things like loader lift and the size of the bucket. Transmission type, comfort of the seat and interior. How good is the AC and what does it take to keep it working? I know a guy with a Zetor that he picked up real cheap that has to pull the to of his cab off to clean out the AC radiator because it gets so clogged up mowing that it stops working. What good is a cab if it doesn't keep you comfortable? And the most important thing is how far away is the dealer and how well stocked are they on parts?

Eddie

For the most part I agree. The point to posting the numbers (of all the comparable factual, and not opinion based specs) is to show where each tractor compared to the others for each spec objectively.

However, I will tell you that the lift power DOES matter in relation to how it handles a 3pt implement. For example, my HD Back Blade might weigh somewhere around 1000lbs but it sticks out almost 5' behind the tractor, so it's not the same "weight" as if measured at the ball ends of the 3pt.

Anyhow, while both my LS R4047 and my new Massey 1648 cab handle the blade ... the Massey handles lifting it much easier. Not that the LS strained, but i could definitely feel it when I lifted it. The Massey on the other hand, lifts it without even feeling it. It's a noticeable difference.

Might not ever matter... or it could matter in the long term. Like anything else, using something to the end of its limits might have long term consequences, vs using it within its comfort zone with room to spare.

 

[TSO]

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=361919"/>
As a reference, THESE are the official specifications for our 40-50 horsepower models.
You might need to zoom in.

Yes, the HP numbers I posted were for HST models only ... that is where the driveline loss shows in the PTO HP numbers.

 

[slowzuki]

I will tell you the lift numbers on the 3 point don't really matter that much. Even with a loader on you won't be able to use that hitch capacity unless you get a big bucket of dirt first. My snowblower is a big side chute model Normand that sticks way back, with blower raised the tires barely touch the ground, can't steer on snow unless you fill the bucket. Everything else big I have for the 3 point is barely usable on the small tractor.

As an example my KV AB85 spring reset plow below. Hitches up fine, tractor lifts it without sweat. Front tires barely touching ground, no where near enough tractor to use the plow.



Below the blower. I use the blower about 80-100 hours per winter and it runs well, just heavy.