Arc Air Gouging

[nwngunner]

I have been doing a lot of research and wanting a plasma cutter. How ever, i am finding a plasma cutter is very very touchy in what it will and will not work with. Most of the time i am not working with new clean metal, and there is no way to make some of the metal i work with shine like new.

So my question is, how effective is arc air gouging in rough cutting steel. How clean will it cut and how percise can i get with it, with pratice.

Also, i have a 300amp dc welder and my compressor will do almost 17cfm @ 175psi. Are those two items big enough, also how thick of steel can i expect to cut, or is it like a torch the slower i go the thicker i can cut. I am wanting to be able to cut up to 1inch or 1 1/4 plate some times.

Also what is required to be able to do this process, is just a arc air torch and connect my air line and my stinger lead to it?

 

[5030]

Been using plasma for years and I don't find it at all touchy. The trick, if you will, is to initiate the plasma arc on a clean spot and have a good conductive ground. I routinely cut less than pretty metal and have no problem.

Arc Gouging is current intensive and very dirty. Outside is okay, inside is a no-no.

It all depends on how fast you want to spin that industion disc on your electric meter.

 

[MikeD74T]

Air gouging is not cutting per se but melting then blowing the molten metal away. You will not get satisfactory precise severing of metals without a lot of effort. It is good for v-ing cracks, rough cutting stainless steel, or removing welds. For 1" or 1-1/2' steel you might find it acceptable for infrequent cuts rather than purchasing a larger plasma cutter but I'd go for a bigger O/A torch first. Air gouging is clean regarding slag as you melt the metal rather than oxidize it. MikeD74T

 

[nwngunner]

ok thanks guys i will just keep using my oa torch, my oa torch is good for upto 3 or 4 inch, i just need to get rid of the propane to cut that heavy.

 

[yomax4]

Plasma is an excelland way to gouge. You control the gouge by turning the amps down or up. Much less heat invloved over using the torch.

 

[slowzuki]

Why? I had a propane tip for 4", the local scrap yards big wrecking torch is oxy-propane?

ok thanks guys i will just keep using my oa torch, my oa torch is good for upto 3 or 4 inch, i just need to get rid of the propane to cut that heavy.

 

[deereman75]

ou can cut way thicker with propane then with O/A, because you can have the propane at a much higher pressure, which means a bigger tip. (I have seen propane tips for cutting 24 inch thick)

 

[TraderMark]

I love my arc gouge.
But like MikeD74T said, it has its purposes.
I too, use mine for veeing cracks, removing old welds, etc.
I've also found that for me, arc gouging works MUCH better when I run on AC instead of DC. It's almost like having a 'bead eraser' when you're trying to take things apart and save the base metal.

Mark

 

[yomax4]

The serious scrap yards do use Propane and Oxygen. I set one up with 4= 02 Gas Packs and 6= 100# propane tanks ran through a vaporizer. We were cutting 30" machine bases and bundles of rebar. Very wild set up...Like holding onto a Fire Hose...

 

[jake98]

Arc gouging is with a buzz box and a carbon stick, or something? You guys are loosing us beginners here..

 

[5030]

My experience is that it takes a bit more than a 'buzz box' to gouge.

Far as cutting really thick metal. We cut bolster plates and dies a few years ago when Chrysler closed their Sherwood Avenue assembly/stamping plant. It was easier to scrap out rather than truck dies and plates.

We used a Schramm gas driven air compressor, jackhammer hose and phosphor rods encased in steel tubes. You lit off the phosphor rods with an OA torch, cranked up the air and cut, sometimes 4 feet thick, like soft butter. It's really dirty, you have to wear Nomex but it does the job.

For intricate cutting in a home shop scenario, nothing beats plasma.. It takes about 2 minutes to remove the plasma torch and power supply from the CNC plasma table and use it freehand.

 

[yomax4]

Carbon Arc Gouging is a process that looks like a large Stick Welding Stinger that holds a Carbon Rod often copper coated, The Stinger jaws have small holes in them that pressurized air blows through. Strike a dead short arc and the air blows away the molten material. Normally you would want 400 amps to Air Arc or Carbon Arc with. It is very loud and very very spark oriented. It makes a huge mess. But..You can move a lot of material in a very short time. Some large mold making places like a foundry will use 1" Carbons with 1200 amps of power. Low end to be safe ( on your welder) you would want 300 amps to run a 1/8" rod. I don't get into anything that heavy so I enjoy the surgical gouging you can do with a plasma cutter. Turn it way down and surgically remove a race off of a shaft with out getting it red hot. Turn it up a little and it gets more aggressive. I usually get most jobs done under 50 amps but I know places that Plasma gouge with 200 amps. Nasty like Carbon Arc but not quite as much mess and colder sparks.

 

[jake98]

I'm trying to picture when I'd want to gouge something, sounds like it's done on big steel, thanks for the clarifications.
Am I gouging when I'm cutting sideways with plasma, like taking off a weld?

 

[Tobias Dunlap]

ok thanks guys i will just keep using my oa torch, my oa torch is good for upto 3 or 4 inch, i just need to get rid of the propane to cut that heavy.

No need to get rid of the propane bud. In a lot of the coal mines I worked in they only had propane. We routinely cut 6-8" thick. You just need to get the right sized tip to cut the thick material.
300 amps and the air supply you said is plenty to air arc with. I've run 1/8 rods on only 100 amps and it did just fine. Not really practical for cutting, though it will work. Make sure you don't have any flammable materials for a BIG radius around you while your AAing. You'd be surprised what likes to catch on fire from AA sparks.

 

[dstig1]

Here ya go Jake. Everything is on Youtube...

Arcair Gouging Torches - YouTube

If you see the 3 little holes where the stinger grips the rod, that is where the compressed air blasts out aiming at the tip of the rod. Big current, very noisy and flaming crap flying everywhere. Kinda like torch cutting on steroids. We did a quick trial of it in class just as a thing the teacher wanted to show us one night. This is used for really heavy cutting and gouging, was my understanding. It's probably a lot cheaper than buying acetylene, but it's a pretty coarse process.

 

[5030]

Actually, gouging is what occurs every April 15th.



oooooops, wrong thread......

 

[jake98]

Here ya go Jake. Everything is on Youtube...

Thanks Dave, Glad I won't be needin one of those anytime soon...

Actually, gouging is what occurs every April 15th.



oooooops, wrong thread......

Yeah, Uncle Sam has gouging down to a science. :laughing:

 

[slowzuki]

They used carbon air arc a lot at a power plant I worked at cutting the 1.5" think penstock tubes and cutting a 2" stainless flange that was oh 20 ft in diameter. Was like sitting in a jet engine being in the scrollcase while they worked. Took a lot of clean up after.

 

[yomax4]

Another cool one to check out is Arc Air Exothermic Slice process. We used one of these to pierce holes in a boulder so we could break it up with a sledge hammer. It will cut anything or any combination of things like steel in concrete or rock or even glass. Nearly as messy as Carbon Arc but cuts anything. Fire departments are now using these because they can spray water on the arc and it cuts without sparks. They can remove the roof on a car 10x faster than the jaws of life. All it is is a special alloy rolled semi hollow rod that you hook up to 80 psi oxygen and it has a striker to start the arc. As long as you hold the trigger it will never go out until the rod is gone. U tube it. its cool. :thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

Video of plasma and air arc gouging, for comparison.

Plasma vs Gouge Video - Demonstration by Tray-Tec, Inc. - YouTube