ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences.

[Scrambler82]

Your first point is correct, Grev, but not the second. Arc-faults act as a check on some of the electrician's work. Poor connections that generate an arc will cause the breaker to trip when it's energized and the electrician will have to find the problem.

Arc-fault breakers also protect against homeowners driving screws and nails into wires in walls and rats chewing wire insulation in attics.

Chris

Chris,
I understand, up until I came to SoCal I didn't know about ARC Fault Breakers.

I've wired two complete houses and two barns complete, used GFI but never an ARC Fault, funny.

My Barn here in SoCal, uses standard breakers and GFI Breakers but I will look into the ARC Fault, maybe a good thing.

Ltr

 

[ultrarunner]

Like many on TBN, we live in a place where the house will be a complete loss by the time that the fire department arrives. I weighed the potential benefit of arc-fault breakers against the cost (which is not insignificant) and decided in favour of them. In a couple of years of use we've never had a single nuisance trip of any of the 31 CAFI or combination CAFI/GFCI breakers (Square D QO type (not bought at Habitat for Humanity!))

This was done during replacement of a FPE (Stab-Lok) panel like Tom has commented on. There have been many documented problems with these panels/breakers. If you're not sure of the type of panel in your house, this site is worth a read:
The Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok(R) Panel Circuit Breaker Hazard, Repairs, Electrical Panel Replacement Electricians Directory for Stab-Lok(R) Repairs

Chris

Lots of Federal Pacific here. It was put in almost universally late 50's and 60's... no recalls yet

 

[Chris616]

Lots of Federal Pacific here. It was put in almost universally late 50's and 60's... no recalls yet

From what I read on that website, the Federal Pacific company that produced those panels and breakers no longer exists. I don't know how product recalls work in the US, but I'm guessing that they don't happen if the company is no longer around to foot the bill.

Again, from that website, there is a "Federal Pacific" (Home - Federal Pacific), but it apparently isn't the same company:

"There is currently no "FPE Corporation" to whom consumers can easily presently direct a complaint unless they participated in the New Jersey Class Action. A separate and currently live corporation, the Federal Pacific Company, owned by the Electro Mechanical Corporation, is not the Federal Pacific Electric Company and is not related to nor a successor of Federal Pacific Electric."

Chris

 

[Industrial Toys]

When I worked hi rise elecrical contruction back in the early 80s, often to shut off a circuit, we would just short it out, rather than find the panel. It was scary, how hard some circuits were to trip. I have fuses in my house and don't regret that in any way. They have never failed.

 

[Scrambler82]

Year back and I do mean YEARS Back, my parents house had two glass fuses, one for the kitchen and one for the rest of the house.
We couldn't use the Christmas Lights at the same time we watched TV... They had the panel upgraded when they bought their first electric stove, to a Major Fuse Holder insert and two glass fuses, didn't change much but they got to use the stove.

When I got out of the Army and was living home for a while, I rewired their whole house, we had 13 extension cords after the rewire.
The only power in the bed rooms were the center light in the ceilings, funny thinking on that now.

When the panel was put in, by me, they had three circuit for the kitchen, and a separate circuit for each rooms receptacles but no ceiling lighting, mom didn't light that.

Any how, the panels held up, with regular circuit breaks of the time, for over 50 years before the house was sold and had a complete redo on the electrical.

I understand the GFI thing, but if the system is put together well, circuits are separated and not over loaded, why is this ARC Fault a must have thing ?

My house in MA was wired in the same manner, a 200 amp box with plenty of circuits for every room and for expansion, and no problems, GFIs on all exterior receptacles and full GFIs in the kitchen except for the Frigerator, the Dishwasher, and the Compactor. We got by without the ARC Fault.

I can understand the possibility of saving someone from Electrocution or at least a jolt that might cause problems but I don't see the need. Yes if there was a fire I too would be in trouble, but if the system is installed properly, wires are tightened properly, no aluminum wire, and no overloading, there shouldn't be any trouble; at least that is the way I look at it !

Sorry got carried away AGAIN !

 

[Industrial Toys]

When you see mass produced receptacles costing .39 and specification or hospital grade ones costing ten bucks a piece (I'm guessing) you know the ones used in house construction are probably garbage! AND with push in connections to save EVEN more time and money! But as ususal, don't focus on the problem. Just think of the price to use good fixtures over the cost of arc fault breakers.

My Amalgamed Fuse Panel probably has thirty circuits. Pull out doubles for the 220 circuits.

 

[fried1765]

Like many on TBN, we live in a place where the house will be a complete loss by the time that the fire department arrives. I weighed the potential benefit of arc-fault breakers against the cost (which is not insignificant) and decided in favour of them. In a couple of years of use we've never had a single nuisance trip of any of the 31 CAFI or combination CAFI/GFCI breakers (Square D QO type (not bought at Habitat for Humanity!))

This was done during replacement of a FPE (Stab-Lok) panel like Tom has commented on. There have been many documented problems with these panels/breakers. If you're not sure of the type of panel in your house, this site is worth a read:
The Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok(R) Panel Circuit Breaker Hazard, Repairs, Electrical Panel Replacement Electricians Directory for Stab-Lok(R) Repairs

Chris

My 290 year old house would also "be a complete loss", by the time the FD arrived.

Solution: Replacement value insurance on EVERYTHING!
No fire worries.
Covers EVERY fire situation,.... not just an extremely rare ARC fault fire.

I once had a total fire loss (1987).
Replacement value covered it all.
At the time, I calculated that I could pay my insurance premium for 200+ years, before the total premiums paid would equal the payout.

 

[grsthegreat]

Stab loc breakers were better than Zinsco breakers..lol now those were real garbage. Their ad stated “our breakers never trip”

 

[dlctcg]

I understand the GFI thing, but if the system is put together well, circuits are separated and not over loaded, why is this ARC Fault a must have thing ?

Only one real answer..... Corporate America... (Sorry but it is true)... A "Company" got it passed into code to sell product... ARC Fault has been a complete nuisance in my field; way to many failures / false trips... (but I'm bitter on the subject.... don't even get me started on lead paint laws)

 

[Industrial Toys]

Also, possibly that "they" have lost control of unlisted (or counterfeit) consumer electrical products coming into the country. If many of those things fail, like cheap extensin cords and power bars, they will probably ARC before catching fire.