Are ethanol proponents dissappointed in Briggs & Stratton's latest product?

[MossRoad]

Regardless of whether the intake manifold is heated, the PCU makes it's adjustment to fuel mapping based on readings from the mass airflow sensor, which is located between the air filter and the throttle body. This sensor lets the computer adjust for cold/hot air or elevation changes. Preheating the air would raise the temperature of the incoming air by a relatively equal amount whether incoming temp was 20° or 100°

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

Thanks for the explanation. :thumbsup:

 

[adirondackmtnman]

No, not quite, dude. If an engine simply dumped in more fuel because the air was more dense, it would make more power (at same air/fuel ratio). Thus where you might have been previously cruising along at steady state, you would now be accelerating. If the air is more dense, you can back off the throttle a little bit to produce the same power from very close to the same amount of fuel.

Vehicles lose mpg in the winter for all sorts of reasons. But BY FAR the biggest reason is simply that the engine are started up cold. Cold oil, cold coolant, cold gear oil, cold bearings, cold tires, etc. All consume much more fuel until they warm up. In addition, the engine will automatically over-fuel to help warm the engine up when it is very cold. Yes, gas additives used to put a hit on winter mpgs. But nowadays, a modern vehicle will get the same highway mpg in the winter as it does in the summer, once it is warmed up.

Actually cold air and more fuel DOES make more power, hence the reason that people put cold air intakes on cars. Simply put, there is more oxygen available per unit in cold air that there is in hot air. If the PCM didn't compensate for this, you would continuously be running too rich or too lean for the environmental conditions. I'm not here to argue this point with you, if you'd like to disprove me, do a little legitimate research and get back to me.

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

 

[Midniteoyl]

Actually cold air and more fuel DOES make more power, hence the reason that people put cold air intakes on cars. Simply put, there is more oxygen available per unit in cold air that there is in hot air. If the PCM didn't compensate for this, you would continuously be running too rich or too lean for the environmental conditions. I'm not here to argue this point with you, if you'd like to disprove me, do a little legitimate research and get back to me.

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

He agreed.. his point, however, was that since you are making more power for a given throttle position you actually use less throttle to maintain the same speed, so its a wash.

However )), since you are making more power for a given throttle position, you will burn more gas while accelerating 'cause most people do not adjust for that while accelerating and simply push the throttle down as far as they always do. This causes faster acceleration and burns more gas. This is the reason a previous poster claimed the same highway mileage, but crappier city mileage.. :thumbsup:

 

[3930dave]

I don't fault Briggs (or any other company) for trying to make money. But, there is more to it than just that.

Corn folks, and Washington, seem to be pushing for E15 to be standardized. That's gonna cause pain, and not just in small engines. So, Briggs is covering their bases, concerning future E15 use.

Many consumers want an instant, fool-proof solution. Selling 'em a boutique fuel, that is long-term stable (relative to E contaminated gas) is a viable solution. Many of these people don't really care about the added cost for low use items.

Many TBN'ers like to DIY and roll their own solutions. If you get the same performance/reliability for less money, then that is the deal that works for us.

A consumer that doesn't understand how an engine works, and doesn't want to learn, is today probably better off buying a boutique fuel, IMO.

Rgds, D.

 

[k0ua]

(relative to E contaminated gas)

That's good, I will have to remember that one:thumbsup:

 

[3930dave]

That's good, I will have to remember that one:thumbsup:

I call 'em as I see 'em.

Yeah..... that's got me in trouble more than once. :laughing:

Rgds, D.

 

[Finnster]

Vehicles take a hit in mileage in wintertime because colder air is more dense, thereby necessitating extra fuel to be delivered into the engine to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. Octane rating for the summer/winter blends still meet the same requirements throughout the year.

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

You should make more power then, and use less gas right? It should all balance out. You still need X amt of power to go 70mph.

Octane rating stays the same, but I thought that was more due to the composition of the fuel. I thought EtOH had a fairly high octane rating, but low BTU/Energy per volume of fuel.

Basically came down to needing more fuel to make same amt of power. Could be wrong, but thought that was the case.

 

[Finnster]

No, not quite, dude. If an engine simply dumped in more fuel because the air was more dense, it would make more power (at same air/fuel ratio). Thus where you might have been previously cruising along at steady state, you would now be accelerating. If the air is more dense, you can back off the throttle a little bit to produce the same power from very close to the same amount of fuel.

Vehicles lose mpg in the winter for all sorts of reasons. But BY FAR the biggest reason is simply that the engine are started up cold. Cold oil, cold coolant, cold gear oil, cold bearings, cold tires, etc. All consume much more fuel until they warm up. In addition, the engine will automatically over-fuel to help warm the engine up when it is very cold. Yes, gas additives used to put a hit on winter mpgs. But nowadays, a modern vehicle will get the same highway mpg in the winter as it does in the summer, once it is warmed up.

Really? Hmm... Just wondering here.

How modern is modern? The car in question is an 02. I've tracked the mpgs since the first tank, upto 200K now. I def see about a 10% drop during the winter.
I also have had a very long commute (30 to 70 miles ea way) and really only used for commuting. I would have thought the extra gas from startup/heatup would have been averaged out over such a long continuous driving distance.

Also never let the car set in the driveway/garage heating up for a long time. Just until the revs came down after a min or so, then took off and drove nice until temp came up. This is a little alu 2.0L, so it always heated up quickly. Seat of the pants felt like there was a big power drop too. As above, thought this was due to less btu/E per volume of fuel with the crummy winter blends.

I could see all the other cold components contributing to a big net. IDK.

 

[adirondackmtnman]

You should make more power then, and use less gas right? It should all balance out. You still need X amt of power to go 70mph.

Octane rating stays the same, but I thought that was more due to the composition of the fuel. I thought EtOH had a fairly high octane rating, but low BTU/Energy per volume of fuel.

Basically came down to needing more fuel to make same amt of power. Could be wrong, but thought that was the case.

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

 

[adirondackmtnman]

You should make more power then, and use less gas right? It should all balance out. You still need X amt of power to go 70mph.

Octane rating stays the same, but I thought that was more due to the composition of the fuel. I thought EtOH had a fairly high octane rating, but low BTU/Energy per volume of fuel.

Basically came down to needing more fuel to make same amt of power. Could be wrong, but thought that was the case.

True that since you're making more power, you should expend less energy to move the same mass, but with the car running at x speed in y gear, at z highway speed, your engine will still turn the same RPM. Each revolution of the engine is a preset volume of air(cubic inches) so if your PCM calculates a denser air moving through the system, it will adjust the mapping of the fuel system accordingly, thereby using more fuel, as the engine is still taking the same number of gulps. The extra 'Power' the engine is making at this point is meaningless because you're cruising...

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet