Are you off the Grid?

dmccarty · Feb 7, 2003

Hazmat,

I'm not so sure if its the technology is still a baby or if it just
does not make much sense for most people. I'm talking solar
cells. Energy efficient homes are easy to build. The books
and techniques are out there, well founded, easy to do, and
very cheap to implement. But getting builders to do these
things can be like pulling teeth... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The solar house design from Wake Forest I'm sure works. I
just think there are better and more efficient ways to build
an energy efficient house. The builder of the kits is up front
in saying that you have to be commited to living in his houses.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think one can design and build houses that work like the
Wake Forest designs without making as many compromises.

With solar cells I keep bumping into the power to build equals
or exceeds the energy given from the cells. If this is true or
cannot be changed then it seems kinda iffy on the idea of
being energy efficent by using the cells since they are almost
certainly going to be produced with nuke or fossil fuel
generated power. And even if the price per KWh went down
for what ever reason you still get back to the energy in vs
energy out. Course this does not apply if one cannot connect
to the grid.

Later,
Dan

Dozernut · Feb 7, 2003

My brother-in-law built a semi-underground home. The house is underground with the exception of the roof, which is a basic pitched, asphalt shingled roof. A small window air conditioner is all that is required to cool the house in the hottest of weather. A small gas furnace provides the heat in winter.
Some friends of ours built a complete underground home. They do not need an air conditioner, but they do have to run dehumidifiers, especially in the summer. Heating is done with a small wood stove which is fired only to take the chill off. With skylights and sun tunnels, along with a glassed southern walkout, these homes can be well lit and cozy (not to mention tornado proof). These type homes take little energy requirements and would lend themselfs easily to living off the grid. The down side of these homes are, they are expensive to build and if not done right can have water problems. They are also an acquired taste, not for everyone but something to consider if you are serious about getting off the grid.

hazmat · Feb 7, 2003

Dan,

I was reffering to the Wake Forest Design. The solar cells aren't an infant design, just not competative in most cases.

TresCrows · Feb 7, 2003

My next house I will pay more attention to siteing and passive techniques. I see nothing wrong with incorporating such things as long as they don't detract from the livability of the house, force tiny windows on me or restrict the resale of the house.
I just do not ever see the practical possibility of houses in most areas having independent power stations. Solar and wind can be ugly and an eyesore, Imagine every house with a windmill on the roof and huge panels and big tanks of hotwater storage. Smart design to reduce power use is a good thing but attempting to get off the grid just for the sake of being off grid is not cost effective. I am considering installing a diesel or propane powered generator. It is automatic and disconnects from the grid when there is a power outage. Such a device could be valuable given the (going global here) threats to our infrastructure. It is entirely possible that large areas could have a power outage that might take weeks to get back up--days/weeks--not forever--no Y2K paranormal hysteria here. One thing, if you have a property that has flowing water you could generate hydro electric. I met this guy who was going to pump water with his well to run a hydro generator. I asked him where the electrity was going to come from to run the well pump?----this dude clearly failed grade school science. J

hazmat · Feb 7, 2003

I met this guy who was going to pump water with his well to run a hydro generator. I asked him where the electrity was going to come from to run the well pump?----this dude clearly failed grade school science. J 

Ahh the perpetual motion machine! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dmccarty · Feb 7, 2003

( I met this guy who was going to pump water with his well to run a hydro generator. I asked him where the electrity was going to come from to run the well pump?----this dude clearly failed grade school science. J 

Ahh the perpetual motion machine! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

But he will be rich when he gets it to work!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Later,
Dan

Egon · Feb 7, 2003

Maybe he was downhill from a perched water table and wouldn't need a pump.

Egon

Cacinok · Feb 7, 2003

Ah yes, money. Solar is expensive if you look at it as an all at once expense, but so is a house. What if you look at it as you do your house. One big expense spread out over the course of 30 years.

The above posts mention $30k for a solar setup so let's go with that number (I believe you may be able to do it for less -- too many variables to account for). $30k over 30 years is obviously $1k/ year. Or less than $85/ month. In my medium size all electric, no fireplace, w/ central heat and air, we spend between $106 and $150/ month. This is just for the wife and I, no kids, yet, so only two showers/ day, lights usually get turned off when not in use.

Over the long haul solar would put some money back into my pocket. Adjusting for increase in the cost of grid electric over the course of 30 years should compensate for maintenance. Some of the Photovoltaic panels come with a 25 year warranty, so not too many worries there.

The above logic is from one of the websites I was reading (can't remember which).

As far as looks, reference this house in Maine. They are completely off the grid and sell some power back to the electric company.

I'm in no position to take the plunge right now, but I am gathering ideas and plan to start implementing on a very small scale.

Ever since my retail auto parts store days, when a guy came in handed me a cardboard cutout circle and told me he needed bearings with races this outer diameter for his hydroelectric system. I've been intrigued with the possibilities of hydro and have seen a water pump that lifts the water using the power of the flowing water here. Makes you wonder about lifting the water up into a holding tank and generating electricity on the way down.

The guy at the auto parts store said that his water source dropped 60 feet straight down and he could power his whole house with his setup. Wish I would have asked more questions.

Clint.

TresCrows · Feb 7, 2003

Makes you wonder about lifting the water up into a holding tank and generating electricity on the way down.

Well, yes, as long as the lifting power is free it would work possibly. However, if you have to run a pump to get it up the hill or lift it into a tank then the power consumed to lift it into the tank will be GREATER than that generated. That is Physics. Hydroelectric is very intriguing for those who have a proper source. I have not sat down and figured the volume of water or it's velocity, you could balance volume with velocity, but I suspect it is quite a bit to run the typical household with airconditioning. Leaving out airconditioning things look better but with a souce of flowing water with sufficient head even seasonal use could be very practical. How many watts or horsepower is a typical ac unit consume. How about your aircompressor, your heater fan, your lights etc? You would have to sit down and figure peak and average loads. Maybe a battery system to smooth power delievery and provide for peak surges (like when the air compressor kicks on when you fill your Kubota tires) and stuff like that. J

Cacinok · Feb 8, 2003

TresCrows,

Check out the link in my previous post labeled "here." The guy was able to use flexible tubing coiled around the away from shore edge of a waterwheel to create a pump driven by the waterwheel. The waterwheel drives the open end of the coiled tubing into the water and back up into the air. So you have intervals of water and then air, pulsing down the tubing, which moves the water a great distance and gives it some lift also.

Clint.