ARIZONA???

[scruffy]

Any members out there from Arizona? Need info. Contemplating a job/relo to Scotsdale area.

 

[glennmac]

Scruffy, I have been there several times. I liked it a lot in the visitor sense, but I don't know that I would want to permanently live there.

Phoenix is a booming city in the middle of the desert, ringed by mountains. The landscape looks like the moon -- very little natural vegetation -- but I find it attractive. If you like the woods and trees, however, you probably would quickly have withdrawal symptoms. Also, the summers are brutal: 110 - 115 degrees. The city could not have existed without the invention of air conditioning. But you can drive 5 or 6 hours north to Flagstaff, passing through beautiful country and about 4 climate zones.

Scottsdale is one of the ritzier, expensive suburbs. Lots of county clubs and spas for the top 1% of the top 1%. Very nice. Lots of imported orange trees that need constant irrigation.

I'm not sure what you would do with a tractor there. Maybe brushhog lichen.

Check it out if is a serious job offer. Spend some time there. I'd go there in a heartbeat over Brooklyn if those were my two choices.

Glenn

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi Scruffy,

I moved to AZ about six months ago (from upstate NY) and LOVE it. I happen to live in Tucson. What was already said about Phoenix/Scottsdale is true. Population is projected to grow by another 50% by 2025, so there is likely to be fair to good economy. The desert doesn't bother me (no snow). The people are more laid back, friendly. I especially like the fullness of the sky, and the easy warm winters. It is also true you don't see that many small tractors out here---I guess because there is no lawn to mow. But there is a lot of ranching, horses and some big farms of sheep. You can surely figure out plenty to do with your tractor.

Thomas

 

[scruffy]

Glenn,
I LOVE the woods and mountains, and although the summers may be brutal at 110-115 degrees, my wife can be even MORE brutal!!! ;o) (She'll thump me for that one).
The job offer is a very serious one, full-time permanent position at a healthy figure, plus full benefits. I am familiar with Flagstaff, (love the area), and somewhat with Tucson. Other than driving through, not with Phoenix, other than it is huge ( I hate cities!), but Scottsdale is on the northeast corner, and the job site is on the very outskirts. (Potential for rural living w/o entering city?)
Opportunity for tractor use? Mow cactus?
So far other companies interested in convincing me to move are in New Jersey, and the one in Brooklyn, as well as one full time in Long Island, and one six month stint also in Long Island N.Y. Have no desire for that area, what would I do with a tractor there?

Thomas, I have a good friend in Tucson, and another friend's Dad lives there. This company mentioned the possibility of transferring to Tucson when the open a new site up there...they plan on having a staff of 800 in Tucson within the next two years.
I don't mind the desert, my wife loves it, and the son, well, not sure there, he suffers severe asthma bouts on occasion.
I would be more interested if I can locate something within a 30 mile arc on the northeast side, but no way will I live in the city area.
Thank you Glenn, and Thomas for your input. There are parts of Arizona I like much more, but these nasty habits (eating, living expenses, etc) will allow one to accept some discomforts in life.

 

[TomG]

Scottsdale, Like Phoenix, is very urban and not at all old southwest. Scottsdale attracted many retired military senior officers--very clear and conservative, not at all like your namesake.

Lots of tractors in the state though, if not around Phoenix. Lots of vegetable production during the winter. Oh, get used to the idea that August & September vacations are desirable to get away from the heat. Most people at my dad's place in Lake Havasu (hotter than Phoenix) turn off their hot water heaters during the summer. The water gets hot enough for showers just running through the city water system.

 

[bsauter]

My inlaws live in Green Valley full time. About 30 miles south of Tucson. I didn't like it the first time went out there to visit but after a few more trips I gotta tell ya I love Arizona. Last year I rented a Cherokee and we went into the mountains going to the old ghost towns. Fun! I am a photographer and the southwest has great light. I missed all the vegetation and didn't like all the brown when we first went but it really grows on you. Never been there in the summer but my inlaws say they do thier walking and activities in the mornings and evenings and stay inside in the middle of the day.

Never been up north, only as far as Phoenix (didn't like the city that much) but hope to see the milder climates sometime.

Good luck with your decision.

Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978

 

[glennmac]

I've spent some time in both Phoenix and Tucson. Tucson used to have more of an old world cowboy feel. But that was 15 years ago. I like Phoenix better because it is proportionately closer to the northern Arizona mountains.

By the way, Arizona Highways magazine is one of the most beautiful in the world. The photography is stunning. I used to subscibe to it just for that reason.

I think is was in Arizona, but could have been in New Mexico: Came to a sign that said "Welcome to Nowhere, Arizona, Population 0". About 100 yards down the road is a sign saying "You are leaving Nowhere, Arizona". Got a photo of my car with both signs visible.

 

[scruffy]

TomG...my namesake?? Lost me there. Wouldn't mean my son would you? If so, I didn't stick him with the name, Mom did! I wouldn't do that to the oldest boy, but she got to the Doc before I got my two cents in! Besides, her 98 cents carried more weight!

Brad, having grown up in the Pacific Northwest, I can relate to the first time 'brown' syndrome! I will have to say that the desert is beautiful after a good rainy period.
Everything imaginable blossums, last for a day to a week or two, and then its back to the brown tones again.

Remember going through New Mexico shortly after a few days of rain, the Sugaro (sic) National Forest was absolutely gorgeous, but I never figured out where they got that 'Forest' part from, ain't no trees!

Glenn, the geographic relationship of Phoenix to the Northern mountainous area didn't escape my notice! As to the ARIZONA magazine, I too have viewed it many times, and enjoyed the exquisite photography (a longtime passion of mine).
Everywhere I've lived, I've always researched the area's history, which is another 'thing' of mine. It always makes an area come more 'alive' and enjoyable by providing some insite to local customs, etc. Arizona has a lot of history that I already know, but lots more to make it more interesting.

Sound like I am trying to convince myself? Not really, I think the Wife is already 80% sure of my decision, but still a few steps to go through. They show a lot of interest, and there H.R. department head contacted me yesterday. (? Since when H.R. before final face to face interview?)

Today they asked if I minded skipping the phone interview, (all I've had is a quick chat to ask if I was interested, available, and 'portable'-they will pay moving expenses) and going straight to the in-person interview, as they want to move as quickly as possible. (Didn't like the fact that I've been dickering with a couple firms in NoCal - ain't letting them know that I have no desire to be stuck in the Silicon Valley area!)
We'll see! Can't convince me to wear western boots though, been doing that all my life. Gave up on Stetsons, cause every child ruined at least one, and that got too expensive!
For some reason, my kids always considered them to be an excellant 'stool' or pad or something.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scruffy on 10/25/00 04:41 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[scruffy]

TomG, well If we move to the Scottsdale area, then I suppose they will want to run me off for not fitting their mold so to speak. I wear a beard, and no-one has ever accused me of being pretentious! As Popeye would say, I am what I am, a country boy. They may keep their 'airs' and pretentions, but I will be true to myself. I got 'fired' (not really but similar) from one job (I was the Site Manager) because I wouldn't wear the 'shirt and tie' when a district manager came for an onsite visit. I told him I wouldn't and I didn't. He took it as my not showing him respect. So what? A phone call to the western regional manager, and I took a promotion and moved on to another larger site, with the understanding that I would not wear a tie. Clothes do not make the person, nor do they accomplish the job at hand. Airs, bah humbug!

 

[jyoutz]

Scruffy, I'm from Arizona (native), but I'm not from the city nor the desert part. I live in the white mountains in rural NE AZ. But I can probably answer your questions, so go ahead.

 

[scruffy]

Ah-hah! A Native no less! That is getting to be rare in any state with the current mobility of our population!
1. Is there reasonable habitation within a 20 to 40 mile arc of Scottsdale on the northeast quadrent?
2. General cost of living in Arizona, i.e. monthly rental range, utilities, groceries (somewhat of an idea - not holding anyone to specifics), etc. (reference to family of 3, but considering household pets (2 dogs, currently 4 cockatiels).
3. Proximity of mountanous region to area mentioned in 1.
4. Idea of traffic conditions, if one can stay in the above mentioned northeast quadrant. (Don't need a repeat of post in Country Boy in City Traffic)
5. Country n.e. of Scottsdale, is it desert?, mountainous?, populated with juniper trees? sagebrush/cactus?
6. (silly question next) Ghost towns/settlements, historical areas, etc. (out of the city)
7. Suggestions for places to visit? Look for housing (rural)?
8. Winter weather? (have real good idea of summer - hot!)
Thanks! Don't worry if you can't answer all, just looking for all the info I can dredge up to assist in making a decision.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I lived Glendale and worked in Phoenix in '97 and '98. If you can provide a major intersection near where you plan to work and a desired drive time for commuting maybe I can help. Scotsdale is pricey but if you are on the northern or western side commutes from Glendale, Phoenix or rural areas are not that bad. The neat thing about the area is that you are never more than a couple of hours from the mountains, ghost towns, mines etc. Plan on buying a 4wd for weekend fun trips!

 

[gordon]

Scruffy something similar happened to my dad on a job. He was supposed to wear a tie as well. Needless to say he hated a neck choker so he never wore one. One day the vice president of the company and him got into it about the tie issue. Saying it wasn't good that he didn't adhere to the dress code being that he was project manager, he wasn't setting a good example for the engineers and superintendents under him.----His reply--- I bring in the jobs way under cost right well a tie would only slow me down having to always move it out of the way of the blueprints and if you don't like it there are enough construction companies that would hire me in a second without a tie with my job record.

This is the outcome of above----ties weren't in the dress code anymore for jobsite personell just at the home office. Dad was sure happy with the outcome but boy he sure could be a hard head at times. But he only had to wear a tie a couple of times a year when he had to go to the main office, something even he could tolerate.
Gordon

 

[scruffy]

Ken, I've received the impression (strongly) that Scottsdale is 'pricey'. That's OK, I don't/won't/and will not live in 'town' anyway. The area is in the northeastern part of Scottsdale, and from the description I got, is right across the street from Old Town Scottsdale. That is all I have on location at this time. This may not come to fruition after all, as they want to low-ball the salary. I have said if they meet the minimum requirements that I have put forth, then we can talk turkey. They have placed a cap on the salary @15G below my minimum...not counting benefits. So far, they are going through their head office to shoot for a one time exemption to meet my demands. Nice to be wanted so! Actually, they contacted me, knowing the range I would accept, so it's up to them to make the next move... I kinda hope so, as the company is ok, the area is ok, and my wife is all FOR IT! She loves the desert.

Gordon, I can well understand. I don't mind wearing a tie, WHEN I have to. But as any of the Information Technology folks know, you may spend a good portion of your time just pounding on a keyboard, interfacing with various folks, or just have a backside and elbows visible while the rest of you is stuck in a cabinet, or under somedesk or something tracing a cable to a wall outlet that has been buried behind a workstation partition. Meetings? I don't mind, BUT, personally, I think they should be outlawed! Nasty things.

 

[jyoutz]

Well scruffy, as I said, I'm not from the urban area or desert country but I'll try to answer your questions. Scottsdale is an affluent area so most housing is rather pricy. But parts of Scottsdale and adjoining Phoenix are not too expensive, but this is all suburban living. North of there about 45 minutes is New River, a rural area in the desert mnt. foothills. Lots of horses, tractors, ect.. there. You would have to commute on I-17. Phoenix-Scottsdale are smack in the Sonoran desert so that's what the county is like. North of there heading into Prescott, Verde Valley, its more juniper/chapparal/high plains type of country. Of course north of that (3 hours N of PHX) you climb up the Mogollon Rim to the Colorado Plateau (Flagstaff area). Or 2 hours NE is Payson - a cool mountain area and 1.5 hour further still to the white mountains). This is God's county. Ponderosa pine forests, mountains, Grand Canyon, cold weather and lots of snow. But getting back to the PHX-Scottsdale area-winter weather is not bad at all (60's day, 40's night), rain during Pacific frontal storms. Spring and fall are not bad and summer is unbearable -BUT you will be spending as much time as possible in the cool mnts. around Flagstaff or the White Mnts. where I live (that's the AZ tradition -most desert residents have cabins or 2nd homes in the high country-or for the less affluent,a tent or camper). Most land in AZ is government owned so outdoor recreation like hunting, fishing, camping are real popular. Personally, I am a mountain man and not real enamored of the desert or the city but to each his own. AZ is a land of great contrasts: a highly urban population living in PHX or Tucson areas with the rest of the state wide-open, rural with no major cities. Flagstaff is the 4th largest metro area (after PHX, Tucson, Yuma) and has only about 75,000 population. Topography, as I mentioned is extremely diverse. Most people don't realize that AZ is only about 1/3 Sonoran desert, about 1/3 rocky mountain forest or woodland, and about 1/3 high plains, mnt. foothills or chaparral vegetation. I would highly recommend that you visit Scottsdale and look at rural housing in the New River/Black Canyon City (I-17 corridor), or Payson highway (AZ 87)areas. Other rural areas are Buckeye (lots of farming) but that's west of PHX and I'm not sure about the commute. As to traffic, well you'll have to judge for yourself. I live in the mnts. in an area of 10,000 population so my judgement is not very good. It's all nasty city driving as far as I'm concerned. A traffic tie-up to me is an elk herd on the HWY. I know that I didn't answer all of your questions, but it's a start. Let me know if you need any more info.

 

[jyoutz]

Scruffy, just realized that I didn't address at all your questions about cost of living. Well, I'm not really up on those things in the area that you're considering. I would however say that housing would be the highest expense. Due to a lack of private land, land and housing is high but it seems like other costs: taxes, utilities, retail, groceries, ect are very reasonable, comparatively speaking. Housing costs (PHX metro area): well nothing exists less than $100K, median price about $150K. Lots of housing in the $200K+ price in the Scottsdale area. Of course many rural areas can be less than this.

 

[glennmac]

Scruffy,

As I'm sure you know, if its important, Phoenix is a pro sports and college sports town (ASU).

Tactically, I think you should get a firm offer before you negotiate salary. If the business guys who need you don't like you after the intereviews, it is all moot anyway. If they do want you, they will pressure the HR staff people on your behalf.

Glenn

 

[scruffy]

Glenn, got the feedback from four sources (3 within the company in question - HR Manager, headman in Salt Lake, and his boss in Chicago) they definately want me, and are running it through the Corporate powers to be for an exemption to pay the salary range that I gave. The fourth source (a headhunter) has told them that I would NOT accept anything lower than the stated range initially given them. I've told them flat out that it would have to fall in that range, with moving expenses, signing bonus, and their offered 10% annual cash bonus, 401k, med. ins, etc. They sure didn't back off. I have several others in the works, two serious, but they are 9 month to 12 month contracts, with the potential for going permanent. I am willing to settle for a lower figure on the permanent job than what I can garner on the contracts, which typically I can pull 2X or more money out of, but have to pay my own medical etc, which eats up the money in a hurry.

 

[glennmac]

OK, you're further along in the process than I realized. I've moved my principal residence 20 times in my life. It is never easy, but gets harder as you get older. I know you've considered the impact on your kids.

I don't know what the real estate market is like where you live now, but another thing you can ask for is for them to have a relocation firm handle the sale of your current house. The way it works is that the relo firm gets appraisals on your house. They then try to sell it for you. If it doesn't sell within 60 days, the relo firm buys the house for the average of the appraisals. Even if the employer doesn't use relo firms, you can also ask them to pay all the expenses and fees of selling and/or buying your homes (including the real estate commissions). Those expenses can easily be a lot more than the moving van expense, which is what some companies limit their relo coverage to.

I also hope you have a good accountant to get all the tax deductions for which you are eligible as an independent contractor, which you will be giving up.

Glenn