As a customer what is acceptable to you?

[Torvy]

There are serious misconceptions if you think the military is a better environment than any union/association run company field. There is a reason almost 1/3rd of military arsenal ends up on the black market.

Most military members are half starved, we treat active military very badly.

My dad spent 22 years enlisted. My brother spent 20 as an officer and is now working as a GS 15 for the USAF. I know more than most, less than some.

You partially make my point. We treat civilian bureaucrats better than our troops. I am saying treat them 100% the same. They are supposed to be serving their country, not serving themselves or some union bosses. Most of our troops understand service=sacrifice. I think we should do better by them. We can pay them better if we stop feeding the bureaucracy and it's union leeches.

 

[ericm979]

I'd have been very pleased to get VA and Tricare for life and a pension after 20 years as a federal fire fighter. A lot more folks would sign up for that job and stick with it if they got those benefits.

The only serving myself that I did on fire crew was C-rats from the back of the truck when we were on the line all day and I was starving.

 

[Torvy]

Thanks for your service. Firefighters are not bureaucrats.

 

[Jstpssng]

If you treat your employees like servants you get what you deserve. That goes for government as well as private employees. Rather than treating civil employees the way that we treat our military, perhaps we should treat our military the way that we would expect to be treated.

I also believe that our elected officials should have the same insurance coverage as the rest of our employees.

 

[Whidbey]

I think most unelected federal employees should have to be part of the military. Make them all meet the same standards and expectations. If you have the skill set for an administrative MOS, you do that work. You also get moved around every 3 or 4 years and may get deployed as needed. Moving them around helps prevent malfeasance. Up or out promotions, just like the rest of the military. No one stays in more than 30 years, most don't make it to 20.

That will not work very well. Think about having the bulk of your workforce being replaced every thre years. Some of these positions take a year to fully grasp the duties required. As a former civil servent who moved around a fair amount I can tell you from experience there was a huge difference between what the job description stated and the actual work.

 

[jjp8182]

That will not work very well. Think about having the bulk of your workforce being replaced every thre years. Some of these positions take a year to fully grasp the duties required. As a former civil servent who moved around a fair amount I can tell you from experience there was a huge difference between what the job description stated and the actual work.

In some cases, it'd take even longer than a year for them to grasp the role and even longer to actually become productive ...

For example: those positions that combine technical knowledge with policy/regulatory requirements may quite a bit longer since even if the person comes in with an appropriate level of technical understanding they still need to learn the regulatory aspects (and usually well enough to be able to teach/explain/defend them) ....in addition to learning how to manage the additional bureaucracy that's been imposed in the name/interest of Congressional oversight.

Swapping them around would be about like expecting an English professor or math professor to start teaching collegiate level economics -- and given not even all types of engineers/scientists are necessarily interchangeable.

So given the US government employs a large number of scientists and engineers directly (the FDA, the FAA, the DoD, the various national labs, etc) I'm not seeing how rotations would be helpful particularly when it comes to those technical positions that involve oversight of private industry

...and given how much chaos can be caused by the rotation of military leadership in DoD procurement/development programs (which can be rather like a business changing leadership/owners every 3 to 4 years).

 

[Jstpssng]

That will not work very well. Think about having the bulk of your workforce being replaced every thre years. Some of these positions take a year to fully grasp the duties required. As a former civil servent who moved around a fair amount I can tell you from experience there was a huge difference between what the job description stated and the actual work.

That's the same argument against term limits. However, while I believe that to attract the best candidates for many government positions you need to offer job security, when it comes to our elected officials I'm beginning to see the need for the latter.

In case it isn't obvious, in my roundabout way I"m agreeing with you.

 

[tradosaurus]

I think most unelected federal employees should have to be part of the military. Make them all meet the same standards and expectations. If you have the skill set for an administrative MOS, you do that work. You also get moved around every 3 or 4 years and may get deployed as needed. Moving them around helps prevent malfeasance. Up or out promotions, just like the rest of the military. No one stays in more than 30 years, most don't make it to 20.

Good luck with that. There is a 75 yo man that works in our group that can barely see his computer screen. Can't do anything. He could retire with full benefits (48 yr federal employee) but comes to work because he has nothing else to do.

 

[DieselBound]

Good luck with that. There is a 75 yo man that works in our group that can barely see his computer screen. Can't do anything. He could retire with full benefits (48 yr federal employee) but comes to work because he has nothing else to do.

I'm laughing, which should tell you I understand what you're saying! (the movie Office Space is apropos) While our minds struggle to get wrapped around this kind of behavior we should note that some folks have struggles that we just cannot comprehend (and which tend to cause us to make fun of others; and while fun can be made, I'm not immune, I feel me must maintain a sense of empathy lest we loose what it really means to be human).

I spent a few years in military service and can tell you it's a good place to locate people who shouldn't be out in the public. As one of my superiors told me: "This is as close to communism as you're going to get." Just ironic that a system that is so much like communism is revered by those who abhor communism (flag-wavers): I like to point out that if communism is such a bad system, which I believe is so, then how could it become dominant given that nature doesn't allow bad systems to exist for very long. NOTE: I'm speaking from a US-centric point of view (I'm well aware of what things are like elsewhere; I don't paint with broad strokes). NOTE2: I try to refrain from exposing myself as a vet as I do NOT expect to be treated as "special" (I totally detest the notion of feeling entitled)- please do not feed me, do not thank me for my "service"- I enlisted, it was MY CHOICE.

 

[Whidbey]

That's the same argument against term limits. However, while I believe that to attract the best candidates for many government positions you need to offer job security, when it comes to our elected officials I'm beginning to see the need for the latter.

In case it isn't obvious, in my roundabout way I"m agreeing with you.

Exactly. Just think about your experience and what you learned after you left college. There are many things you learn on the job, some of them the hard way. Your education is a starting point not the end of your learning. Your work seems to be a classic example of that.