Comparison Assume dealer and price are equal, does Kubota beat NH in mid-size (100hp+) segment

[LouNY]

yep, not many.

 

[FERLING]

Appreciate all the responses. I'm not sure which direction I will go. Between Kubota and New Holland it probably does not matter. Both are great and the dealer support in my case is as well. But of course I must obsess over such decisions regardless.

If equal tractors and equal dealers then the one that weighs the most will have an advantage. Looked at Kubota and New Holland. New Holland weighed the most and no regeneration was necessary for New Holland. Everything is automatic with no assistance from operator.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

There is a fairly large increase in the amount of nitrogen oxides than a 75 HP engine can emit vs. a >75 HP engine

Good post but is this a typo here?

 

[mo1]

Good post but is this a typo here?

Not a typo. The 75 HP engine can emit up to 3.5 grams of nitrogen oxides plus hydrocarbons per HP-hr, which is about eight times as much as a 76 HP engine is allowed to (140 mg of hydrocarbons and 300 mg of nitrogen oxides per HP-hr.) The 75 HP engine can actually emit the same total quantity of hydrocarbon and nitrogen oxide emissions as a 600 HP engine and still meet the regulations.

 

[Hay Dude]

Havent read the entire thread, but I’m on my 4th 100+ Kubota tractor and also my last. They are not built to withstand the rigors of everyday hard service or constant farming more than about 3000 hours.
If you want to farm, buy a real farm tractor.

 

[Hay Dude]

Comparable “legacy” farm tractors (AGCO, NH, Case-IH, Deere) typically weigh more. Although that doesn’t seem important, it is the most important thing in a tractor.
Weight equals power & stability.

I’d take a 125HP tractor that weighed 14,000lbs over a 150HP tractor that weighed 11,000lbs every day. You can add weight to the lighter tractor, but that does not increase frame strength.

Kubota has outstanding loyalty under 100HP. 20 years ago, they were almost unmatched in what they offered and quality. I think that has changed. CNH and AGCO have decided to get serious in the 100 HP and smaller market.
Kubota now expanding up to 200HP with a 6.7L Cummins power plant makes things more interesting.

 

[mo1]

Comparable “legacy” farm tractors (AGCO, NH, Case-IH, Deere) typically weigh more. Although that doesn’t seem important, it is the most important thing in a tractor.
Weight equals power & stability.

I’d take a 125HP tractor that weighed 14,000lbs over a 150HP tractor that weighed 11,000lbs every day. You can add weight to the lighter tractor, but that does not increase frame strength.

Kubota has outstanding loyalty under 100HP. 20 years ago, they were almost unmatched in what they offered and quality. I think that has changed. CNH and AGCO have decided to get serious in the 100 HP and smaller market.
Kubota now expanding up to 200HP with a 6.7L Cummins power plant makes things more interesting.

Kubota was known for compact tractors only up until pretty recently, the vast majority of which were less than 40-45 HP. The established manufacturers pretty much gave the under 40-45 HP market up when the smallest full-sized ag tractors got larger than this size. They however certainly did continue to compete in the 45-50 through 100 HP market as that is the smaller full-sized utility tractor market that they never left. Kubota didn't really break into the full-sized utility tractor market very much until the late 90s/early 2000s, even though they started building tractors that size in the late 1970s.

Kubota is "expanding" into the smaller rowcrop market the same way the established manufacturers expanded into compacts during the '80s, they are rebranding another manufacturer's tractors. In this case, the Kubota M8s are rebranded Versatile Nemesis tractors made in Canada by a majority Russian-owned company. We will see if Kubota will do what Deere did and eventually decide the market is large enough to make much of it in-house after a while (although they still farm out engines) or do what CNH and AGCO do and continue to rebrand other manufactuers' units decades later.

 

[LD1]

Comparable “legacy” farm tractors (AGCO, NH, Case-IH, Deere) typically weigh more. Although that doesn’t seem important, it is the most important thing in a tractor.
Weight equals power & stability.

I’d take a 125HP tractor that weighed 14,000lbs over a 150HP tractor that weighed 11,000lbs every day. You can add weight to the lighter tractor, but that does not increase frame strength.

Kubota has outstanding loyalty under 100HP. 20 years ago, they were almost unmatched in what they offered and quality. I think that has changed. CNH and AGCO have decided to get serious in the 100 HP and smaller market.
Kubota now expanding up to 200HP with a 6.7L Cummins power plant makes things more interesting.

The trend has gotten lighter across the board...

Or rather more HP in smaller class machines.

The "real" farmer around me uses a pair of deere's for most of his work. A 7130 and a 7430
The 7130 being 125hp-engine and 100pto HP and @ 12,300lbs for cab 4wd
The 7430 being 166hp engine and 140pto HP and @ 15,000lbs for cab 4wd

Those numbers align pretty close to the Kubota M7's in similar HP and about 16,000lbs. The kubotas actually a little heavier surprisingly.

Another farmer in the area, that only farms a few hundred acres has a 6125e deere
Thats 125 engine HP, 106 at the PTO, and 10,000lbs
Compares nicely to the M6-131, also around 10k pounds

But horsepower is NOT a good baseline to compare tractors. You need to FIRST compare the size/series. THEN compare horsepower secondary.

IE: Deere 5-series = Kubota M5 = New holland T5
Deere 6-series = M6 = T6
Deere 7-series = M7 = T7, etc

Because you can have a 5-series, 6-series, and 7-series deere all in the ~125hp range, and all will vastly different capabilities.


Just like you can have a cabbed 4wd M5-111 @ 7600lbs or a M6-111 @ 10,000lbs. Or a M6-131 @ 10,800lbs or a M7-131 @ 15,000lbs

Compare weight/frame size first, horsepower secondary.

I can say that if I was looking to spend the $$$$$$ that these machines cost, and was gonna live my life in the cab more than I sleep in my bed...cab comfort, ergonomics, etc would be my primary focus. Because brand dont matter, deere, kubota, NH, massey, etc. They ALL make a machine more than capable to do what is needed in these sizes.

 

[mo1]

The trend has gotten lighter across the board...

Or rather more HP in smaller class machines.

But horsepower is NOT a good baseline to compare tractors. You need to FIRST compare the size/series. THEN compare horsepower secondary.

IE: Deere 5-series = Kubota M5 = New holland T5
Deere 6-series = M6 = T6
Deere 7-series = M7 = T7, etc

Because you can have a 5-series, 6-series, and 7-series deere all in the ~125hp range, and all will vastly different capabilities.

I think your chart was correct a decade ago but is out of date with the most recent Deere models. Comparing to CNH is sometimes difficult as CNH is "ahead" of Deere and Kubota in the "get more power out of a smaller-displacement engine in a smaller chassis" race. The 5E is a competitor to the Kubota M6060, M7060 and M4 line as well as the New Holland Workmaster 50/60/70, 55/65/75, Workmaster 95/105 and the Powerstar 65/75. The 5M is a competitor to the Kubota M5 and the smaller M6s, as well as the New Holland Workmaster 120 and Powerstar 90/100/110/120. The 5R is sort of in a class by itself due to its ridiculous price.

The Deere 6E is a competitor to the Kubota M6 line. It doesn't have a competitor from CNH as the Workmasters and Powerstars of this engine power are the size of the 5M, which is a smaller tractor. The T6 line that is of a similar size makes noticeably more power than the 6E line does. The closest NH competitor would be the base-trim four-cylinder Tier III T6010 and T6020.

The Deere 6M and 6R have three different frame sizes. The small-frame four-cylinder units are competitors to the Kubota M6 and are very similar in size to the four-cylinder NH T6 line but the NH units make more power than most of the Deeres do. The medium-frame six-cylinder 6Ms/6Rs are competitors to the M7 and the T6 line although only the T6.180 is physically the size of the Deeres here. The large-frame 6Ms are competitors to the Versatile Nemesis that Kubota sells as the M8 and the NH T7 line of the same power, and the 6R is the competitor of the T7 line up through the T7.270. The T7.290 and the rest of the T7 line would compete with the Deere 7Rs and are much larger than anything Kubota puts their label on.

Deere did a considerable rework of their 6 and 7 series tractor lines about a decade ago. The original 6000 series units are now the 6E and the small-frame 6M and 6R. The small-frame 7000 series units now are the medium and large-frame 6Ms and 6Rs, the large-frame 7000 series units (e.g. 7630 and larger) became the 7R series. The smallest current 7 series is the 7R 210, which is 210/231 HP engine HP and tested at a smidge over 200 PTO HP. Kubota would need to get Rostelmash to let them stick their label on the Versatile 265 through 360 to have a 7R competitor.

 

[LD1]

^^^^

The change it more often than the wind changes direction...makes it hard to keep up if you aren't actively in the market for such a machine. And most farmers I know aren't in the market EVERY year. So they gotta re-educate themselves.

Definitely makes it difficult to compare across brands.....especially wien so many people focus on horsepower....and not physical size/weight/frame