Auto Darkening Lens Reaction Time

[Welshman]

I'm in the market for an auto darkening helmet. I've spent a lot of time researching and looking, but the one aspect I'm not clear about is how fast is fast enough with regard to lens reaction time. The consensus seems to be that lens reaction time is more a matter of eye comfort (preventing "itchy eye") rather than eye safety (UV is filtered by the lens in its "at rest" state), but to me, there is a great deal of conflicting information. I've looked at expensive helmets that have a slower reaction time than less expensive helmets, and I understand that price difference can be the result of other factors, so my question specifically still is - How fast is fast enough? What are your experiences and/or data? Is there a "baseline" or minimum?
Thanks.

 

[jmanatee2]

I am not a professional, although I have taken on big projects welding all day for several days (trailers, towers etc.)

I have two from Harbor freight (I think they have one on sale for $39.99)

Although I am sure the construction of the helmet (plastic, head band, etc) is cheaper then a hobart, miller, or speed glass. I would not hesitate to buy another.

get one for $40 and play with it. (I dont think you will ever go back)

 

[Welshman]

Do you happen to know what the lens reaction spec' is on either of them?

 

[jmanatee2]

I cant find the bigger lens one on Harbor freights web site anymore (bummer because I would buy another).

but from memory I think one is 1/16000 and the other is 1/20000 of a sec.

Both work great, flawless and I have had them for years.

 

[Welshman]

Thanks, that's a help.

 

[Scooby074]

Im one of the guys that gets itchy eyes from my friends cheaper helmets.

when i bought my AD helmet, i knew i couldnt use a Princess Auto (chinese) helmet so i bought a Miller Big Window Elite.

Ive been very happy with it. The reaction time is fast and sensitive enough for Tig, in the 1/20,000 second range. Its very easy on the eyes. Im not sure how much faith i'd put in the labeling of the chinese helmets, especially the claims of 1/60,000 sec.

Some guys have great luck with the cheapies, not me.

 

[Jay4200]

Evidently, the arc takes a fair amount of time to brighten up, so the non-filtered time is during a time of lesser brightness. I don't know what kind of time frame we are dealing with however.

I used a friend's HF $40 helmet for several welds and found I got a little 'sandy' eye irritation. It was very minor, however. The HF helmet is specified with a pretty good reaction times (1/25,000 sec, or 0.4mS), but I was still leery of the Chinese helmets, so I shopped for a "better" made in USA helmet with a faster reaction time.

I ended up buying a $175 Jackson Safety helmet - it had no reaction time spec in the marketing sheet, however, but I figured it was expensive so it HAD to be better. After I got it, I got a spec sheet from the company and to my amazement, the reaction time was specified at 1/2750 sec., or almost 4mS! I was afraid to use it, but did, and I didn't notice eye irritation.

I then bought a 1/30,000 specified Chinese special on Ebay for $35. I haven't used it much yet, so I don't know how it will work. The Jackson definitely has a more sensitive trigger, but is the $35 helmet REALLY 10 times as fast? I find that hard to believe.

The real question is, are the Chinese blatantly lying on their spec sheets, or are they really that good? Is reaction time not that important and is there something else at work here with the sandy eyeball complaints, or is it a case of placebo effect? I have an electronics lab at my disposal, someday I'm going to build up a test fixture and measure the actual reaction times of these things.

JayC

 

[grsthegreat]

I have the Jackson Halo series helmet. There kinda spendy, but i value my eyes. It has the large window and has settings for grinding, das torch and welding...i think 10 settings if i remember.
LARGE 13.2 square inch viewing area (3.41" x 3.87")
Versatile: 3N1 Weld, Grind, Cut mode
Sensitivity and delay adjustments
Variable shade 9-12
Two independent sensors
Amber view lens (in Grind Mode ONLY)
Intellisense technology for low amp tig
Mag lens adaptable
4x5 Cartridge fits Shadow and Halo X helmets
Operates on standard AAA batteries
Manufactured in the United States
Two year performance guarantee
At a full 13.2 square inches of viewing area, the Jackson BOSS has the largest viewing area of any auto-darkening welding lens in the world

or so they say hehe. but i do see alot of what im welding now.

 

[Little_Grizzly]

actually there is a good reason for slowing down the reaction time sometimes. The reaction time also applies to how fast the lens un-darkens. As many of you know, when you are doing those big welds the bead is still glowing white hot after the arc has gone away. Having the lens stay dark a bit longer is easier on the eyes. I've gotten in the habit of blinking my eyes just a moment before striking the arc. It's literally a blink of an eye..haha negates the time it takes to darken. YMMV

 

[deereman75]

I was looking in an old snap-on catalog from the mid 1990s, and their auto dark helmet had a darkening time of 1/2000 of a second! The new lincoln viking series helmets have a darkening time of 1/25000 of a second, almost 13 times as fast. (well snap-on also had a 40 amp plasma cutter that was the size of a lincoln idealarc, so things have improved quite a bit)

 

[biggerten]

........... (1/25,000 sec, or 0.4mS), but I was still leery of the Chinese helmets..................

.....................at 1/2750 sec., or almost 4mS! ................

JayC

Check yer math, yer gonkulator is misplacing the decimal point.

 

[yomax4]

I used to sell several brands of AD Helmets. The switching speed is more to protect you from initial arc flash than UV/IR. Most brands protect you to the equivellent of shde 16 even in the light state. Although you won't want to weld in the light state, You could and still be safe. You may get eye irritation but you won't suffer UV/IR damage. The better hoods have a delay feature that keeps the shade dark until the puddle cools below white hot. Although Plasma calls for shade 8 or darker, You can cut safely on grind mode which is shade 3-5 depending on brands without UV/IR damage. You can not get that kind of protection with colored glasses or face shields. Switching speed used to be the big selling point before advancements in UV/IR protection at the light state. Taiwan, Switzerland, South Korea and Jackson Safety are the pioneers in AD filters making them easy to copy without doing a lot of initial research. That's China's angle

 

[vic4news]

I have a HF Auto-Darkening helmet and I did notice eye irritation when using it.
I switched to a Miller AD helmet and haven't experienced any discomfort.

Vic

 

[jmanatee2]

Also with any helmet, make sure you don't have a reflective surface behind you, the arc ray will reflect off the surface behind you and then off the inside surface of the lens into your eyes unprotected.

This can also occur if you are wearing light colored clothing.

I usually wear IR/UV safety glasses behind my helmet to help with reflected rays Also helps when I pick up chipping hammer or 4" grinder I already have safety glasses on so just tip up mask.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I just discarded an old HF helmet that I have used for about 3 years. It seems that my sweat dripping into the lens had got to the solar cell and shorted it out. It just suddenly quit darkening. On that helmet, there was no way to remove the lens from the helmet, only the front cover came off. I just picked up one of the other two HF helmets I had and continued with my welding project. I have never had any problem with flash burn (itchy eye you guys are calling it) with any of the HF hoods. This may be because I wear glasses under my hood, but I doubt darkening speed has anything to do with getting flash burn as the lens protects from that without the darkening effect. Most likely folks getting UV burns are getting reflective light from rear of hood or underneath the bottom that is bouncing in reflective light. ALWAYS wear dark clothing when welding, dont weld with light colored walls or shiny objects behind you. If you have to weld in reflective areas, put a cloth behind you kinda Arab style and that will block the light

 

[eastexan]

Also with any helmet, make sure you don't have a reflective surface behind you, the arc ray will reflect off the surface behind you and then off the inside surface of the lens into your eyes unprotected.

This can also occur if you are wearing light colored clothing.

I usually wear IR/UV safety glasses behind my helmet to help with reflected rays Also helps when I pick up chipping hammer or 4" grinder I already have safety glasses on so just tip up mask.

Most likely folks getting UV burns are getting reflective light from rear of hood or underneath the bottom that is bouncing in reflective light. ALWAYS wear dark clothing when welding, dont weld with light colored walls or shiny objects behind you. If you have to weld in reflective areas, put a cloth behind you kinda Arab style and that will block the light

Thanks guys. :thumbsup:
Some good points I wasn't aware of.

 

[Welshman]

I have a HF Auto-Darkening helmet and I did notice eye irritation when using it.
I switched to a Miller AD helmet and haven't experienced any discomfort.

Vic

Do you happen to know what the switching speeds are for either of these?

 

[tglass]

I'm in the market for an auto darkening helmet. I've spent a lot of time researching and looking, but the one aspect I'm not clear about is how fast is fast enough with regard to lens reaction time. The consensus seems to be that lens reaction time is more a matter of eye comfort (preventing "itchy eye") rather than eye safety (UV is filtered by the lens in its "at rest" state), but to me, there is a great deal of conflicting information. I've looked at expensive helmets that have a slower reaction time than less expensive helmets, and I understand that price difference can be the result of other factors, so my question specifically still is - How fast is fast enough? What are your experiences and/or data? Is there a "baseline" or minimum?
Thanks.

Something to remember, most helmets have a sensitivity setting for faster or slower darkening time. Some do not and will darken very fast. I've had the high priced helmets at work and after someone cleaned them the inadvertantly set it to slow reaction and light setting. Next novice to use it got flash from it and said the mask was no good. When I looked at the settings I saw the problem. Also the darkening setting may be set wrong. Wish there was a lock knob on them so I could not move it without knowing . At home I use the cheaper HF or Northern helmet, and have never had a problem with flash. Of coarse I'm the only user.

 

[Welshman]

Something to remember, most helmets have a sensitivity setting for faster or slower darkening time.

I thought, and I don't know, that the sensitivty adjustment controlled the "threshold" at which the lens darkens, rather than the speed of darkening. I know some helmets have a delay that controls when the lens lightens back up, but what is the point of slowing down the darkening? Wouldn't you always want it, once it starts, to darken as fast as its capability?

 

[yomax4]

Sensitivity is more of a Tig feature for 2 sensor Hoods. Some or most hoods have trouble picking up a Tig Arc because the torch is usually very close to the arc and often blocks it. You can make your lens more sensitive to darken when Tig Welding. However, Higher end hoods have 4 sensors and are able to pick up the Tig arc better compared to 2 sensor hoods like th HF ones and others. Another use for sensitivity is reflective arc from behind or sunshine from behind. You can turn it down to be less sensitive to reflective arc.