Automobile engine oil in tractors...

[CubMon]

The automotive industry is slow to make major changes to their engines due to the expense of redesign, retooling and service training. I had always wondered why GM and the others would go to roller cam followers since the roller is more prone to failure than the flat tappet that had been used for many, many years. Now you rarely see an engine other than small ones that do not have roller tappets. There had to be a reason for the change....EPA and oil additives.

The EP additives in automobile oil has been reduced and continues to be removed. These additives, ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and phosphorus were added to oil to combat corrosion and the scuffing action at various wear points in an engine such as flat tappets against the cam lobe. Studies showed that the active substrate in catalytic converters was becoming coated which reduced and eventually stopped the chemical conversion action altogether. So, the EPA forced the oil companys to begin elimination of these additives which also forced the automotive industry to redesign their engine's valve trains.

Long story short: Current automotive engine oils are quick death to older engines that have flat tappets. This affects antique autos, farm tractors, industrial engines and any engine built prior to the early 80's. Using current engine oils in an old tractor engine would be like using 30w engine oil in a differential utilizing a hypoid gear set. Very fast deterioration.

Not sure how many folks know about this.....but if you have any love and respect for that old tractor, don't use automotive engine oil!

 

[wvpolekat]

Do you have any supporting documentation or links?

 

[CubMon]

Classic Car Motor Oil

And there are many other sites...

I was talking to a neighbor a couple of days ago that has an old Ford (1950's) pickup and a Ford tractor (9N I believe) and he was not aware and had not heard of it. I'm bringing it up here because of that - how many folks don't know and are using automotive oil in their old tractors.

 

[CubMon]

The automotive industry has never been concerned about fuel consumption ....it's the OIL that is the concern.

 

[Storm56]

One reason I use Shell Rotella in all of my engines. Gas or diesel. No problems yet in over 15 years of doing this. Figure Delo 400 or Mobil Delvac to be just as good. I am sure there are others too. Diesel specific oils are just better.

 

[art]

One reason I use Shell Rotella in all of my engines. Gas or diesel. No problems yet in over 15 years of doing this. Figure Delo 400 or Mobil Delvac to be just as good. I am sure there are others too. Diesel specific oils are just better.

I don't know what your interval is for a change is but there are big differences!!!!

Diesels like ash and often the better quality oils have more in it, gas engines burn the valves with it!

 

[Storm56]

I don't know what your interval is for a change is but there are big differences!!!!

Diesels like ash and often the better quality oils have more in it, gas engines burn the valves with it!

I have done LOTS of research on this topic. Diesel oils EXCEED any car type spec. In fact I have several articles which test all different types of oils and Rotella and the others I mentioned are only a tick behind most synthetics such as Mobil1 etc in every category except cold flow characteristics.

 

[CubMon]

Harley Davidson states in their owners manuals that the only reasonable substitute for their factory formulation of oil is that which is specifically formulated for diesel engines. The EP additives are still there...so it is not considered automobile engine oil? That would be an alternative for older engines, but to be sure?

Researching this farther, there are in fact additives available to supplement regular 'trendy' engine oils to replace the friction additives that the EPA is restricting in automotive oils. That leads to more problems....how much is enough or actually needed....how much by volume to this volume of oil....Similar to the tetra-ethyl lead issue and additives that WERE available for a while. People will not measure correctly.

We are so well protected. Problem is, protected by a bunch that we need protection from.

 

[brokenot]

The Classic Car Motor Oil link is basically an ad for a product.

Long story short: Current automotive engine oils are quick death to older engines that have flat tappets. This affects antique autos, farm tractors, industrial engines and any engine built prior to the early 80's. Using current engine oils in an old tractor engine would be like using 30w engine oil in a differential utilizing a hypoid gear set. Very fast deterioration.

Quick death? That's a stretch. The internet is a big place, and we can assume that many, many older vehicle or tractor owners spend time on the 'net discussing their hobby(s). Before the introduction of products like the Classic Car Motor Oil, one could assume that there'd be stories aplenty on forums just like this one about a plethora of valve train failures....if newer formulations of oil did indeed cause "quick death" as stated.

Am I saying that things haven't changed? No. But much of what's posted on topics such as this come directly from sites like the Classic Car Motor Oil site....where there's a product for sale, and not from throngs of owners/users that have experienced such failures themselves and are looking for answers as to why the failures occurred.

Good information is one thing. Using scare tactics is another thing altogether.

 

[art]

I have done LOTS of research on this topic. Diesel oils EXCEED any car type spec. In fact I have several articles which test all different types of oils and Rotella and the others I mentioned are only a tick behind most synthetics such as Mobil1 etc in every category except cold flow characteristics.

Look at what I said about the ash!!! Diesels need it to absorb the partially burnt fuel and on a gas engine it will build up and burn the valves.

I didn't say that diesels didn't have properties that aren't better then the gas engines for many parts of it but this is one part that is bad!